Identifying Jehovah in the New Testament

Lilel01 said:
If we read Daniel's words to the angel here:

Dan. 10:15 Now when he spoke these words to me, I turned my face to the ground and became speechless. 16 Then one who looked like a man touched my lips, and I opened my mouth and said to the one who stood in front of me: “My lord, I am shuddering because of the vision, and I have no strength. 17 So how can my lord’s servant speak with my lord? For now I have no strength, and there is no breath left in me.”
18 The one who looked like a man touched me again and strengthened me. 19 Then he said: “Do not be afraid, O very precious man. May you have peace. Be strong, yes, be strong.” As he spoke with me I was strengthened and I said: “Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.”

... we can see Daniel talking to an angel, and this angel giving him peace and strengthtening him. Was Daniel praying to this angel, and he was answering his prayers?

So why should the case of Stephen talking to Jesus, whom he is seeing in a vision, be considered a prayer?

A prayer is only addressed to someone who is invisible to the eye. Jesus prayed many times to Jehovah, his Father, and taught his disciples to do the same.

Heb. 5:7 During his life on earth, Christ offered up supplications and also petitions, with strong outcries and tears, to the One who was able to save him out of death, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear.

Phil. 4:6 Do not be anxious over anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication along with thanksgiving, let your petitions be made known to God; 7 and the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and your mental powers by means of Christ Jesus.
Click to expand...
Stephen was CALLING ON(praying) to Jesus Christ.
Case closed.
 
Lilel01 said:
Did you know that James is not the name of that apostle? Jacobus (in English) would be more exact. In Italian that apostle is called Giacomo and in Spanish Santiago. Are you going to leave him nameless in the Bible because it's not the one he originally had?

"Jesus" is not the original pronuntiation of the name of the Son of Jehovah. If you say that he is as God as Jehovah ... why are you using that pronunciation? How come you don't show the same recklessness with his name? :oops:
Click to expand...
Jesus is the name of The Son of Mary; a MAN'S name.
 
Lilel01 said:
Jesus told the Jews who his Father was:

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

To his "brothers" he sent a message when he resurrected with the woman to whom he appeared first, saying:

John 20:17 " (...) go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”

Who did Jesus' disciples believe to be their Father and God?
Click to expand...
YHWH
 
The trinitarians have a god that is made up of three and which they call the trinity. True Christians have the same God as Jesus Christ, and that is why they are true Christians (John 20:17).

Jesus wanted to do the will of God not his own will, and that he did:

Matt. 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
40 He returned to the disciples and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter: “Could you not so much as keep on the watch for one hour with me? 41 Keep on the watch and pray continually, so that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit, of course, is eager, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again, a second time, he went off and prayed: “My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away unless I drink it, let your will take place.” 43 And he came again and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So leaving them, he again went off and prayed for a third time, saying once more the same thing.

True Christians also strive to do Jehovah's will so that they can be saved by Jesus, who did just that:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
... 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”
 
Last edited:
Lilel01 said:
The trinitarians have a god that is made up of three and which they call the trinity. True Christians have the same God as Jesus Christ, and that is why they are true Christians (John 20:17).

Jesus wanted to do the will of God not his own will, and that he did:

Matt. 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
40 He returned to the disciples and found them sleeping, and he said to Peter: “Could you not so much as keep on the watch for one hour with me? 41 Keep on the watch and pray continually, so that you may not enter into temptation. The spirit, of course, is eager, but the flesh is weak.” 42 Again, a second time, he went off and prayed: “My Father, if it is not possible for this to pass away unless I drink it, let your will take place.” 43 And he came again and found them sleeping, for their eyes were heavy. 44 So leaving them, he again went off and prayed for a third time, saying once more the same thing.

True Christians also strive to do Jehovah's will so that they can be saved by Jesus, who did just that:

Matt. 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the Kingdom of the heavens, but only the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
... 12:50 For whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven, that one is my brother and sister and mother.”
Click to expand...
And the will of The Father is that everyone believe in The Son whom He sent.
 
Exactly.

And what did Jesus say that you have to believe? Did Jesus ever say that he was equal to his Father?
 
Last edited:
You seem to have a fanciful idea of a Jesus that doesn't exist. This is what JESUS taught:

John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

5:19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.

How different from the Jesus you imagine!
 
Lilel01 said:
You seem to have a fanciful idea of a Jesus that doesn't exist. This is what JESUS taught:

John 14:28 You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am.

5:19 Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel.

How different from the Jesus you imagine!
Click to expand...
IOW The Son NEVER works independently of The Father.
They ALWAYS work TOGETHER simultaneously.
BTW you are charged with EVASION. You did NOT interact with 10:30, 5:17-18, 14:8-10.
 
In your dreams, troll.

Jesus decided to do his Father's will by himself, not because he didn't have other options.

John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

He obeyed God of his own free will.

Heb. 5:7 In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; 9 and after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been specifically called by God a high priest according to the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
 
Lilel01 said:
Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song
Click to expand...

Thanks for referring to a section of Scripture in which the Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of worship.

  - Invocation worship and prayer

What we see here from Paul is that he equates Jesus as the source of grace and peace with the Father. Paul clearly identifies Jesus as equal with the Father and expresses His Deity with these invocations in his epistles. Not only is this a prayer from Paul but an act of worship in Paul's...
forums.carm.org

Insight on the Scriptures: Instrumental music in connection with true worship is mentioned only in a figurative sense in the Greek Scriptures (Re 14:2); yet singing seems to have been quite common among God's servants. Jesus and his apostles sang praises after the Lord's Evening Meal. (Mr 14:26) Luke tells of Paul and Silas singing when in prison, and Paul's encouragement to fellow believers was to sing songs of praise to Jehovah. (Ac 16:25; Eph 5:18, 19; Col 3:16) Paul's statement at 1 Corinthians 14:15 concerning singing appears to indicate that it was a regular feature of Christian worship. In recording his inspired vision, John tells of various heavenly creatures singing to God and Christ.—(Re 5:8-10 14:3; 15:2-4) (Music, page 453).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200003137
 
Trinitarians are so caught up in their own fantasy that they don't realize the different identity of God and Jesus in heaven:

Rev. 4:9 Whenever the living creatures give glory and honor and thanksgiving to the One seated on the throne, the One who lives forever and ever, 10 the 24 elders fall down before the One seated on the throne and worship the One who lives forever and ever, and they cast their crowns before the throne, saying: 11 “You are worthy, Jehovah our God, to receive the glory and the honor and the power, because you created all things, and because of your will they came into existence and were created.”

... 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

In heaven no one considers Jesus as God, because no one there is a Trinitarian. That trinitarian fantasy is just a human confusion that has spread like gangrene, to confuse believers about the real identity of God.
 
Lilel01 said:
In your dreams, troll.

Jesus decided to do his Father's will by himself, not because he didn't have other options.

John 5:30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.

He obeyed God of his own free will.

Heb. 5:7 In the days of his flesh [Christ] offered up supplications and also petitions to the One who was able to save him out of death, with strong outcries and tears, and he was favorably heard for his godly fear. 8 Although he was a Son, he learned obedience from the things he suffered; 9 and after he had been made perfect he became responsible for everlasting salvation to all those obeying him, 10 because he has been specifically called by God a high priest according to the manner of Mel·chizʹe·dek.

Rev. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”
Click to expand...
The will of The Father and Son is IDENTICAL.
He became The AUTHOR of eternal salvation. The AUTHOR? Wow! He must be God.
BTW you continue to evade John 5:17-18; 10:30, 14:8-10.
 
You are not more than a liar. Jesus' and his Father's will are different, because both are two different persons. Jesus decided to do Jehovah's will for himself, but he has the alternative of not being loyal if he decide to. It is a voluntary decision, not a mistic one person with the same mind, as your fanciful god triune.

Matt. 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
 
Last edited:
Lilel01 said:
You are not more than a liar. Jesus' and his Father's will are different, because both are two different persons. Jesus decided to do Jehovah's will for himself, but he has the alternative of not being loyal if he decide to. It is a voluntary decision, not a mistic one person with the same mind, as your fanciful god triune.

Matt. 26:39 And going a little way forward, he fell facedown, praying: “My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass away from me. Yet, not as I will, but as you will.”
Click to expand...
Indeed, Father and Son are distinct Persons whose wills are ALWAYS identical.
The Son of God NEVER has the alternative of being disloyal to The Father. Blasphemous assertion.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top