If determinism is true

brightfame52

Well-known member
You just repeated your beliefs

Shows hat God predestined those in Christ should be holy and blameless before him in love

It says nothing all about God determines all the sins of man

you are reading that into the text
Yes Eph 1:11 is my belief !
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You don't know who the wee are
All things work according to Gods predestination, thats who He is as God Eph 1:11

in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the

counsel of his own will:

Of Him is God !
 
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TomFL

Guest
All things work according to Gods predestination, thats who He is as God Eph 1:11

in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the

counsel of his own will:

Of Him is God !
You did not address the We

Eph. 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You did not address the We

Eph. 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
God is a God of predestination, thats His Being and Essence as is He is Holy and Love ! The word predestinated means: proorizō :
  1. to predetermine, decide beforehand
  2. in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
  3. to foreordain, appoint beforehand
 
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TomFL

Guest
God is a God of predestination, thats His Being and Essence as is He is Holy and Love ! The word predestinated means: proorizō :
  1. to predetermine, decide beforehand
  2. in the NT of God decreeing from eternity
  3. to foreordain, appoint beforehand
That does not address the we

Eph. 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

The meaning of predestine is not in question
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
That does not address the we

Eph. 1:1 ¶ Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

The meaning of predestine is not in question
God is a God that predetermines all things that's determinism being true ! It contradicts the thread title dont you think ?
 
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TomFL

Guest
God is a God that predetermines all things that's determinism being true ! It contradicts the thread title dont you think ?
He does not determine all of man's sin

James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
He does not determine all of man's sin

James 1:13 ¶ Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
James 1:14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
James 1:16 Do not err, my beloved brethren.
James 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning.

1Cor. 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

Job 34:10 ¶ Therefore hearken unto me, ye men of understanding: far be it from God, that he should do wickedness; and from the Almighty, that he should commit iniquity.
Job 34:11 For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.
Job 34:12 Yea, surely God will not do wickedly, neither will the Almighty pervert judgment.

1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
He predetermine all things, sin included Eph 1:11

in whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Sin is according to His Purpose, predetermined
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
toms replying against God question

How is man really guilty of his sins, if God decreed beforehand all his sins and made
them happen.

In essence this what the objector says Rom 9:17-19

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
 
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TomFL

Guest
toms replying against God question



In essence this what the objector says Rom 9:17-19

17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. 18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

19 Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God?
Not quite

You have just displayed once again you do not understand scripture in its context

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Not quite

You have just displayed once again you do not understand scripture in its context

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth
Yes it is exactly.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Yes it is exactly.
Sorry the passage says nothing at all about that

.............................................

You have just displayed once again you do not understand scripture in its context

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth

you read that into the passage
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry the passage says nothing at all about that

.............................................

You have just displayed once again you do not understand scripture in its context

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth

you read that into the passage
It's the same exact thing! You the man
 
T

TomFL

Guest
It's the same exact thing! You the man
as was stated

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth

that is not the same thing
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
as was stated

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth

that is not the same thing
Whenever scripture truth of that nature is testified of, men begin to reply against God. It's human nature in the flesh, Paul understood that.
 
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TomFL

Guest
Whenever scripture truth of that nature is testified of, men begin to reply against God. It's human nature in the flesh, Paul understood that.
You failed to address the point

The objector here is a hardened Jew who objects to God using him for an ignoble purpose

God did not make him the spoiled clay that he is but did harden him in that condition so as to use him to effect the crucifixion

This is not a case of God determining all his sin from birth

that is not the same thing
 
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