If determinism is true

brightfame52

Well-known member
Says nothing at all about determining all the sins of man

They call that eisegesis
Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
 
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TomFL

Guest
Eph 1:11

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
Still says nothing at all about determining all of men's sins

BTW that verse is a promise to the faithful in Christ
 
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TomFL

Guest
Yes scripture teach it. I have shown you and a couple of others. You reject it like I expect you to do. You like the Rom 9 man Paul write of Rom 9 20

Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

O man does not matter nationality!
Still says nothing at all about determining all of mans sin

The objector is a hardened Jew who being used in his hardness of heart for the ignoble purpose of Killing the Christ

He argues if he fulfills God will in that condition why does God still judge him

Context matters
 
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TomFL

Guest
It determined all things by predestination. Eph 1 11
Sorry Eph 1:11 is not about sin it is about the predestination of the faithful in Christ

and it is about working things out not determining each and every thing
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry Eph 1:11 is not about sin it is about the predestination of the faithful in Christ

and it is about working things out not determining each and every thing
Eph 1 11 is about all things

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
 
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TomFL

Guest
Eph 1 11 is about all things

In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:
What did you do with worketh that is not determine

Another issue is how you use the term all

Here there is no doubt you refer to each and every thing

rather than the things spoken of in the context

something you reflexively reverse in certain theologically significant passage concerning the atonement of Christ
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What did you do with worketh that is not determine

Another issue is how you use the term all

Here there is no doubt you refer to each and every thing

rather than the things spoken of in the context

something you reflexively reverse in certain theologically significant passage concerning the atonement of Christ
Ephesians 1 11 describes God at work, God is always at work, He is not a part time God. It's God being God to work all things according to His predestination. The atonement is merely the event that is providing the context for this detail about God, but God is not limited to any given context, sorry!
 
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TomFL

Guest
Ephesians 1 11 describes God at work, God is always at work, He is not a part time God. It's God being God to work all things according to His predestination. The atonement is merely the event that is providing the context for this detail about God, but God is not limited to any given context, sorry!
God at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determine all things

Context matters
 
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TomFL

Guest
Just explained. Eph 1 11 is about God
So what it is not about him determining all of man's sinful desires, thoughts and deeds

God at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determine all things

Context matters
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
So what it is not about him determining all of man's sinful desires, thoughts and deeds

God at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determine all things

Context matters
God as He is Love in Essence, He is a Predestinating God Eh 1:11 and that meticulously, should you expect anything less ?
 
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TomFL

Guest
God as He is Love in Essence, He is a Predestinating God Eh 1:11 and that meticulously, should you expect anything less ?


Predetermining sin is not loving

And Eph 1 is not about him determining all of man's sinful desires, thoughts and deeds

God at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determine all things

Context matters
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Predetermining sin is not loving

And Eph 1 is not about him determining all of man's sinful desires, thoughts and deeds

God at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determine all things

Context matters
Comment is unintelligible !
 
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TomFL

Guest
Comment is unintelligible !

You mean like the way you handle scripture

Eph 1 is not about God determining all of man's sinful desires, thoughts and deeds

It is about God being at work saving the faithful in Christ not determining their sin

and worketh does not mean meticulously determining all things
 
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