If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?

sk0rpi0n

Active member
According to the Bible,

David is called "Lord" and people prostrated before him.

Then Bathsheba bowed down with her face to the ground, prostrating herself before the king, and said, “May my lord King David live forever!” (1 Kings 1:31)

Many people also prostrated towards him.

Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king. (1 Chronicles 29:20)

When Abigail saw David, she quickly got off her donkey and bowed down before David with her face to the ground. (1 Samuel 25:23)

And when Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he fell facedown in reverence. Then David said, “Mephibosheth!” “I am your servant,” he replied. (2 Samuel 9:6)

And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. (1Kings 1:23)


David is also called the "son of God"!

I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7)

We also read that David's kingdom will last forever!

Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’” (2 Samuel 7:16)

Of course, that doesn't mean David was God or divine. It just means that he, as representative of God on earth, was being honored by his people. So biblically speaking, it is possible for a mortal man to be called "Lord" and for people to prostrate before him. But that doesn't mean he's God or divine. The same logic has to apply to Jesus as well.
 
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Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
According to the Bible,

David is called "Lord" and people prostrated before him.

Then Bathsheba bowed down with her face to the ground, prostrating herself before the king, and said, “May my lord King David live forever!” (1 Kings 1:31)

Many people also prostrated towards him.

Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king. (1 Chronicles 29:20)

When Abigail saw David, she quickly got off her donkey and bowed down before David with her face to the ground. (1 Samuel 25:23)

And when Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he fell facedown in reverence. Then David said, “Mephibosheth!” “I am your servant,” he replied. (2 Samuel 9:6)

And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. (1Kings 1:23)


David is also called the "son of God"!

I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7)

We also read that David's kingdom will last forever!

Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’” (2 Samuel 7:16)

Of course, that doesn't mean David was God or divine. It just means that he, as representative of God on earth, was being honored by his people. So biblically speaking, it is possible for a mortal man to be called "Lord" and for people to prostrate before him. But that doesn't mean he's God or divine. The same logic has to apply to Jesus as well.
I can't say I could endorse everything you believe in because I don't know what all you believe, but I can endorse your argument here, for both David and Joseph were prostrated before and using the exact same Hebrew words that are used for worship of God also.

This proves that the words for worship of both the New and Old Testament are used for other than only worship unto God and which means that there being used of Jesus also hardly makes him Almighty God either and like the trins and oneness will falsely believe and teach about it.
 

aeg4971

Active member
According to the Bible,

David is called "Lord" and people prostrated before him.

Then Bathsheba bowed down with her face to the ground, prostrating herself before the king, and said, “May my lord King David live forever!” (1 Kings 1:31)

Many people also prostrated towards him.

Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king. (1 Chronicles 29:20)

When Abigail saw David, she quickly got off her donkey and bowed down before David with her face to the ground. (1 Samuel 25:23)

And when Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he fell facedown in reverence. Then David said, “Mephibosheth!” “I am your servant,” he replied. (2 Samuel 9:6)

And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. (1Kings 1:23)


David is also called the "son of God"!

I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7)

We also read that David's kingdom will last forever!

Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’” (2 Samuel 7:16)

Of course, that doesn't mean David was God or divine. It just means that he, as representative of God on earth, was being honored by his people. So biblically speaking, it is possible for a mortal man to be called "Lord" and for people to prostrate before him. But that doesn't mean he's God or divine. The same logic has to apply to Jesus as well.
I answer that David unlike this man Jesus the Christ is in no way the Consubstantial Word of God. God did not assume humanity in general but rather in atomo (ie in an Individual). Furthermore David is a mere creature , whereas Christ is the Word Himself the same in the beginning with God made to the creature.

Therefore Jesus is the Son of God because He is God own Substantial Word Himself , not because He is a man. As is it written," God is not a man that He should lie neither is He the Son of man that He should repent". Furthermore we creatures are made to the image of God, whereas the one and only Begotten Son is the Express Image of God , in which the image we are made in.

I found it Biblically and intellectually offensive that you would even suppose such corporal and created conditions between the Father and the Son,

......... Alan
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
According to the Bible,

David is called "Lord" and people prostrated before him.

Then Bathsheba bowed down with her face to the ground, prostrating herself before the king, and said, “May my lord King David live forever!” (1 Kings 1:31)

Many people also prostrated towards him.

Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD, the God of their fathers; they bowed down, prostrating themselves before the LORD and the king. (1 Chronicles 29:20)

When Abigail saw David, she quickly got off her donkey and bowed down before David with her face to the ground. (1 Samuel 25:23)

And when Mephibosheth son of Jonathan, the son of Saul, came to David, he fell facedown in reverence. Then David said, “Mephibosheth!” “I am your servant,” he replied. (2 Samuel 9:6)

And the king was told, “Nathan the prophet is here.” So he went before the king and bowed with his face to the ground. (1Kings 1:23)


David is also called the "son of God"!

I will proclaim the LORD’s decree: He said to me, “You are my son; today I have become your father. (Psalm 2:7)

We also read that David's kingdom will last forever!

Your house and your kingdom will endure forever before me; your throne will be established forever.’” (2 Samuel 7:16)

Of course, that doesn't mean David was God or divine. It just means that he, as representative of God on earth, was being honored by his people. So biblically speaking, it is possible for a mortal man to be called "Lord" and for people to prostrate before him. But that doesn't mean he's God or divine. The same logic has to apply to Jesus as well.
Jesus Christ is The ONE Lord and The Son of God.
David was NEITHER.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
I can't say I could endorse everything you believe in because I don't know what all you believe, but I can endorse your argument here, for both David and Joseph were prostrated before and using the exact same Hebrew words that are used for worship of God also.

This proves that the words for worship of both the New and Old Testament are used for other than only worship unto God and which means that there being used of Jesus also hardly makes him Almighty God either and like the trins and oneness will falsely believe and teach about it.
Jesus is WORSHIPPED; David was NOT.
 

Fred

Well-known member
According to the Bible,

1. Jesus is called "Lord" in that He is YHWH (Romans 10:13; cf. Joel 3:5 LXX). No passages have David being referred to as YHWH in the Old Testament and no New Testament passage has David being called "Lord" based on an Old Testament text about YHWH.

2. The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer (Acts1:24-26; 7:59-60; 2 Corinthians 12:8). This proves He is God.
The same cannot be said of David.
 
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sk0rpi0n

Active member
Jesus is called "Lord" in that He is YHWH

The word "Lord" is a title for someone with authority. It's used for God. And it's also used for people like Jesus and David. But Christians arbitrarily decide that "Lord" has a divine meaning only when applied to Jesus.

The Lord Jesus is the proper recipient of prayer (Acts1:24-26; 7:59-60; 2 Corinthians 12:8). This proves He is God

In Acts 1:24-26 they're praying to YHWH.

If Jesus is YHWH then it implies that YHWH is "the son of David". Because Jesus is also referred to as "son of David".
 

sk0rpi0n

Active member
This proves that the words for worship of both the New and Old Testament are used for other than only worship unto God and which means that there being used of Jesus also hardly makes him Almighty God either and like the trins and oneness will falsely believe and teach about it.

Exactly. If someone wanted to they could start a new religion where David is God incarnate and they'd be as "correct" as trins.

In fact, David would be greater than Jesus as Jesus is a descendant of David.
 

sk0rpi0n

Active member
for both David and Joseph were prostrated before and using the exact same Hebrew words that are used for worship of God also.

Daniel too.

Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel... (Daniel 2:46, KJV)

Of course, later translations don't use the word "worshipped" but use other words like "paid him honor", "paid homage" etc.

That's exactly what was going on with the "worship" that Jesus received. He wasn't being worshipped as God but was simply being given honor and homage.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
The word "Lord" is a title for someone with authority. It's used for God. And it's also used for people like Jesus and David. But Christians arbitrarily decide that "Lord" has a divine meaning only when applied to Jesus.



In Acts 1:24-26 they're praying to YHWH.

If Jesus is YHWH then it implies that YHWH is "the son of David". Because Jesus is also referred to as "son of David".
In Acts 1:24 they are praying to The Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus The MAN is The Son of David, NOT Jesus Christ The Lord(YHWH).
The Lord is ONLY used for God.
 

Fred

Well-known member
The word "Lord" is a title for someone with authority. It's used for God. And it's also used for people like Jesus and David. But Christians arbitrarily decide that "Lord" has a divine meaning only when applied to Jesus.

See point #1 in post 6 for the difference.

In Acts 1:24-26 they're praying to YHWH.

When the appellation "Lord" appears without reading "Lord Jesus" in Acts 1:24 it is important to keep in mind that whenever the following keys words from this prayer are found elsewhere in Scripture the "Lord" always refers to the Lord Jesus.
The passages in boldface are from the same author (Luke).
1. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "shew" (anadeiknymi) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Luke 10:1).
2. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "chosen" (eklegomai) in Acts 1:24 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:2; cf. v. 6; Luke 6:13; cf. vv. 5, 46; John 6:70; cf. v. 68 and John 13:18; cf. vv. 13-14).
3. The "Lord" occurs along with the same Greek word for "ministry" (diakonia) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Acts 1:17; cf. v. 21; 20:24; 1 Corinthians 12:5; Ephesians 4:12; cf. Ephesians 4:5; Colossians 4:17; 1 Timothy 1:12).
4. The "Lord" occurs along the same Greek word for "apostleship" (apostolē) in Acts 1:25 - in reference to the Lord Jesus (Romans 1:5; cf. Romans 1:4; 1 Corinthians 9:2).
 

sk0rpi0n

Active member
See point #1 in post 6 for the difference.

I already addressed it.

When the appellation "Lord" appears without reading "Lord Jesus" in Acts 1:24 it is important to keep in mind that whenever the following keys words from this prayer are found elsewhere in Scripture the "Lord" always refers to the Lord Jesus.

I know trinitarian Christians interpret it that way, but it's not always the case.

"The Lord" can also refer to God ("the Father", as you call Him). For example, in Luke 1, shortly after Mary is told she will be give birth to Jesus, she says

“My soul glorifies the Lord..." (Luke 1:47)

In that passage, "the Lord" is a reference to God (the Father) whom she found favor with....not Jesus.
 

sk0rpi0n

Active member
The Lord is ONLY used for God.
"The Lord" can also refer to God ("the Father", as you call Him). For example, in Luke 1, shortly after Mary is told she will be give birth to Jesus, she says

“My soul glorifies the Lord..." (Luke 1:47)

In that passage, "the Lord" is a reference to God (the Father) whom she found favor with....not Jesus (as Jesus had not yet appeared on the scene).
 

Fred

Well-known member
I already addressed it.

When "Lord" is used in the New Testament based on an Old Testament passage in reference to YHWH it also refers to YHWH in the New Testament. The fact that "Lord" in Romans 10:13 refers to the Lord Jesus and this passage is based on an Old Testament passage in reference to YHWH proves Jesus is YHWH.

I know trinitarian Christians interpret it that way, but it's not always the case.

"The Lord" can also refer to God ("the Father", as you call Him). For example, in Luke 1, shortly after Mary is told she will be give birth to Jesus, she says

“My soul glorifies the Lord..." (Luke 1:47)

In that passage, "the Lord" is a reference to God (the Father) whom she found favor with....not Jesus.

I know "Lord" can sometimes refer to the Father (Luke 1:47; Acts 4:29, etc.), but in Acts 1:24 it is used in reference to the Lord Jesus (post 12).
 
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Fred

Well-known member
Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face, and worshipped Daniel... (Daniel 2:46, KJV)

Nebuchadnezzar was an unbeliever at this time. Daniel was a prophet and may have been aware that God would handle the intense idolatry of Nebuchadnezzar (see also chapter 3 ) in the way He thought best (Daniel 4:25-26). In fact, the same word used for the 'worship' rendered unto Daniel in Daniel 2:46 is spoken by Nebuchadnezzar in praise of God in that this worship belongs to Him and not to any idol (Daniel 3:28). Sometimes those most opposed to the God of the Bible eventually become His most dedicated believers (Daniel 4:34-37; Philippians 3:7-8).
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
"The Lord" can also refer to God ("the Father", as you call Him). For example, in Luke 1, shortly after Mary is told she will be give birth to Jesus, she says

“My soul glorifies the Lord..." (Luke 1:47)

In that passage, "the Lord" is a reference to God (the Father) whom she found favor with....not Jesus (as Jesus had not yet appeared on the scene).
Which means Father, Son, Holy Spirit are The ONE Lord.
 
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