If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
But, in Jeremiah's day the Jews were sacrificing their children.
Was it for an atonement? Surely you're not serious?

Micah 6
6With what shall I come before the LORD when I bow before the God on high? Should I come to Him with burnt offerings, with year-old calves?

7Would the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

8He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God.

No human sacrifice because all humans are not without sin. Unacceptable substitute for man.
God never called for human sacrifices.

Besides, humans can be without sins.

Psalm 106:38
They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.

What made Jesus acceptable to the Father was that Jesus had no sin nature and never sinned to acquire one.
He fell short and prayed the prayers of a penitent, Hebrews 5:7.

Only Jesus could do that!
He fell short.

The animal sacrifices in the Law of Moses were only symbolic of the true atonement they were all waiting for... the animal sacrifices were training tools to teach Jews about the principles of sin and atonement.
That's not true because they're coming back, Jeremiah 33:14-26, Ezekiel 37-45.

That is why Jesus came to the Jews. For if anyone was to understand the atonement for sin it was the Jews who were surrounded by an amoral pagan world.
Atonement wasn't the purpose. It was to be a prophet like Moses.

God used representative symbolism all the time. Just look at the foods used in the Seder meal.
;) Those are Rabbinic for the most part except for matzoh, lamb.

Once again... in Jeremiah's day the Jews were sacrificing their children.
See above. You must be blind.
 
Last edited:

101G

Well-known member
no human in this world before Christ Jesus DEATH is sinless, be ye innocent blood or not. Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

:ninja:
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Please tell me if all sins require a sacrifice?
Grain offering? It was not for sins.

You are still sidetracking. You are not a real Jew if you fake it.

You can not claim to be a Jew if there is no possible way to perform the most important aspect of the Law which you claim to follow.

To say you are a good Jew under those circumstances? Is like a woman claiming to be a man, and demanding others to accept it.


How did Daniel and his generation manage without a temple and sacrifices?

It was punishment for that rebellious generation for neglecting following God's Law.

It did not last 2000 years like you find yourself trying to figure out way to give a good answer for. Think about it. How many generations of Jews have neglected following God's Law in 2000 years!


No sidetracking. You brought up Leviticus 17:11. Jesus didn't fulfill the requirements.

What Jesus did was what the sacrifices could only symbolize. And, were only supposed to symbolize. They were designed to ingrain into the Jewish soul the concept of atonement.

What Jesus accomplished was not symbolic like the animal sacrifices, but the reality of what the sacrifices could only symbolize.

God prescribed the teaching tool about the realities of sin and atonement with animal sacrifices. It was preparing the thinking of mankind for the time when the real atonement was to come..... And, it did come.

Not everyone will believe. You are free not to believe. I am also free not to feel personally responsibility for your choice.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Grain offering? It was not for sins.

You are still sidetracking. You are not a real Jew if you fake it.

You can not claim to be a Jew if there is no possible way to perform the most important aspect of the Law which you claim to follow.
The most important aspect of the law isn't sacrifices.

To say you are a good Jew under those circumstances? Is like a woman claiming to be a man, and demanding others to accept it.
Sounds like your personal issues.

It was punishment for that rebellious generation for neglecting following God's Law.
That generation.

It did not last 2000 years like you find yourself trying to figure out way to give a good answer for. Think about it. How many generations of Jews have neglected following God's Law in 2000 years!
Have you counted them?

What Jesus did was what the sacrifices could only symbolize. And, were only supposed to symbolize. They were designed to ingrain into the Jewish soul the concept of atonement.
You didn't read Micah's words, did you?

Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
8He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you, but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?

What Jesus accomplished was not symbolic like the animal sacrifices, but the reality of what the sacrifices could only symbolize.
See above. The reality is to obey is better than sacrifice. Even better than Jesus' sacrifice.

God prescribed the teaching tool about the realities of sin and atonement with animal sacrifices. It was preparing the thinking of mankind for the time when the real atonement was to come..... And, it did come.

Not everyone will believe. You are free not to believe. I am also free not to feel personally responsibility for your choice.
Great. Bye 👋.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
no human in this world before Christ Jesus DEATH is sinless, be ye innocent blood or not. Ps 14:3 They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

:ninja:
Psalm 106:38
They shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and daughters, whom they sacrificed to the idols of Canaan, and the land was desecrated by their blood.

Sushi 🍣 man....
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Shall we therefore conclude the temple and sacrifices had no useful purpose?
When it isn't available, then there must be an alternative 🤔.

What did the prophets say about this? We see what Hosea and Solomon said.

Hosea 14:2
Take words with you and return to the LORD. Say to him: “Forgive all our sins and receive us graciously, that we may offer the fruit of our lips.

Hosea 3:4-5.
For the Israelites must live many days without king or prince, without sacrifice or sacred pillar, and without ephod or idol. Afterward, the people of Israel will return and seek the LORD their God and David their king. They will come trembling to the LORD and to His goodness in the last days.

1 Kings 8
46When they sin against You—for there is no one who does not sin—and You become angry with them and deliver them to an enemy who takes them as captives to his own land, whether far or near, 47and when they come to their senses in the land to which they were taken, and they repent and plead with You in the land of their captors, saying, ‘We have sinned and done wrong; we have acted wickedly,’ 48and when they return to You with all their heart and soul in the land of the enemies who took them captive, and when they pray to You in the direction of the land that You gave to their fathers, the city You have chosen, and the house I have built for Your Name, 49then may You hear from heaven, Your dwelling place, their prayer and petition, and may You uphold their cause. 50May You forgive Your people who have sinned against You and all the transgressions they have committed against You, and may You grant them compassion in the eyes of their captors to show them mercy.
51For they are Your people and Your inheritance; You brought them out of Egypt, out of the furnace for iron. 52May Your eyes be open to the pleas of Your servant and of Your people Israel, and may You listen to them whenever they call to You. 53For You, O Lord GOD, as Your inheritance, have set them apart from all the peoples of the earth, as You spoke through Your servant Moses when You brought our fathers out of Egypt.”

So prayer, repentance, attains atonement.

2 Samuel 12:13
Then David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.” Nathan replied, “The LORD has taken away your sin. You are not going to die.

We rely on God's grace and prayers and repentance just like Christians say they do when they still trample Jesus' blood by sinning.
 
Last edited:

GeneZ

Well-known member
When it isn't available, then there must be an alternative 🤔.
It all depends upon WHY it isn't available.

If God was angry with the people and has their land destroyed with its Temple? They must first repent of the sin that brought the punishment upon them. Having crucified Jesus was the cause for God having Jerusalem brought down and the Temple vandalized in 70AD.

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace
and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they
shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps
over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for
Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo."
Zechariah 12:10-11



More Jews than you realize have turned to Jesus as the Messiah. We all share the same understanding about Jews who reject the truth.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
See above. The reality is to obey is better than sacrifice. Even better than Jesus' sacrifice.
King Saul refused to obey God's order. He was supposed to kill the king he had just conquered. Saul refused. He was also told to refuse taking the enemy's animals for booty. Instead, he offered animals for sacrifice.

Not all sacrifices were for sin offerings. Burnt offerings were to show their devotion and commitment to God.

That is why it was said its better to obey than to sacrifice. King Saul disobeyed God. Learn what your Bible teaches.
 
Last edited:

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
It all depends upon WHY it isn't available.
You can see why if you read Lev 26 and Deut 28. A key verse in Lev 26 is this: Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject or despise them so as to destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.

If God was angry with the people and has their land destroyed with its Temple? They must first repent of the sin that brought the punishment upon them. Having crucified Jesus was the cause for God having Jerusalem brought down and the Temple vandalized in 70AD.
Actually, this statement is false as the chapters above discuss why we were dispelled from the land, Rejection of a person claiming to be messiah, isn't one of the reasons.

Of course, the nation must repent. If we weren't headed in the right direction, Israel wouldn't be in their land today.

“And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace
and pleas for mercy, so that, when they look on me, on him whom they have pierced, they
shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps
over a firstborn. On that day the mourning in Jerusalem will be as great as the mourning for
Hadad-rimmon in the plain of Megiddo."
Zechariah 12:10-11

More Jews than you realize have turned to Jesus as the Messiah. We all share the same understanding about Jews who reject the truth.
The context of Zechariah 12, with the nations surrounding Jerusalem, hasn't occurred and neither has verses 10-11. BTW, many gentiles/Christians are converting to Judaism. It's a beautiful thing. ;)
 
Last edited:

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
King Saul refused to obey God's order. He was supposed to kill the king he had just conquered. Saul refused. He was also told to refuse taking the enemy's animals for booty. Instead, he offered animals for sacrifice.
I know the story.

Not all sacrifices were for sin offerings. Burnt offerings were to show their devotion and commitment to God.
True, but not all sins require sacrifices, and some sacrifices also require monetary payments. If you're saying Jesus' sacrifice covered all sins, then he came up short with the monetary payments. ;)

That is why it was said its better to obey than to sacrifice. King Saul disobeyed God. Learn what your Bible teaches.
Yes, to obey is better than sacrifices. Which is why to obey is better than Jesus' sacrifice too. Again, look at Micah 6:6-8.

With what shall I come before the LORD when I bow before the God on high? Should I come to Him with burnt offerings, with year-old calves?
Would the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of oil? Shall I present my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul? He has shown you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you but to act justly, to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God?
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
You can see why if you read Lev 26 and Deut 28. A key verse in Lev 26 is this: Yet in spite of this, when they are in the land of their enemies, I will not reject or despise them so as to destroy them and break My covenant with them; for I am the LORD their God.
God has not broken his covenant with the Jews. He will return and set up His throne in Jerusalem as promised.

That is why Hitler who was demon possessed wanted to kill off all Jews from the face of the earth. So that Jesus would not be able to return as He promised.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
God has not broken his covenant with the Jews. He will return and set up His throne in Jerusalem as promised.
Exactly. And like Solomon did, Messiah will sit on David's throne.

That is why Hitler who was demon possessed wanted to kill off all Jews from the face of the earth. So that Jesus would not be able to return as He promised.
Jesus isn't Messiah. Messiah is still to come.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jesus isn't Messiah. Messiah is still to come.
Its not your time quite yet...

Just the same. I am confident You will know one way or the other.



If it turns out that way? Pay very close attention to the 144,000 Jewish evangelists who will appear on the scene after the fake news media tells everyone that Christians were all abducted by alien UFO's)... The Torah shows the forerunner of what I speak in 2 Kings 2.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
Jesus isn't Messiah. Messiah is still to come.

And, Hitler was not demon possessed? Being obsessed with eliminating all Jews from the face of the earth? Why? Jesus will be returning to set up His kingdom having His throne in Jerusalem.

Today, Satan is frustrated. Why? Because at least the Germans were an efficient and intelligent people. Today, Satan must settle for dumbed down Muslim extremism to try to do what Hitler failed to accomplish with the Jews.

Jesus promised that He will return to Jerusalem to Reign on the throne of David. To rule over his chosen people the Jews. Over those Jews who will survive the Tribulation, possibly soon, to come upon the earth.

I have nothing to prove. Only to reveal. Those who have ears to hear will know.

You can keep thrashing the air if you wish. It will be proven to you one way or the other, not by me.

grace and peace ..........
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Its not your time quite yet...
You're still cut off. There's still time to change.

Just the same. I am confident You will know one way or the other.
I know right now. All knees will bow and tongue confess. That includes Jesus.

If it turns out that way? Pay very close attention to the 144,000 Jewish evangelists who will appear on the scene after the fake news media tells everyone that Christians were all abducted by alien UFO's)... The Torah shows the forerunner of what I speak in 2 Kings 2.
Sorry, I don't take Revelation seriously nor the rest of the NT for that matter.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
And, Hitler was not demon possessed?
Why do you bring up issues in your own mind? I didn't bring this up.

Being obsessed with eliminating all Jews from the face of the earth? Why? Jesus will be returning to set up His kingdom having His throne in Jerusalem.
Jesus isn't Messiah.


Today, Satan is frustrated. Why? Because at least the Germans were an efficient and intelligent people. Today, Satan must settle for dumbed down Muslim extremism to try to do what Hitler failed to accomplish with the Jews.
What does this have to do with anything? Go chill and have some cocoa and play with your pet monkey 🐒.

Jesus promised that He will return to Jerusalem to Reign on the throne of David. To rule over his chosen people the Jews. Over those Jews who will survive the Tribulation, possibly soon, to come upon the earth.
I don't care.

I have nothing to prove. Only to reveal. Those who have ears to hear will know.

You can keep thrashing the air if you wish. It will be proven to you one way or the other, not by me.

grace and peace ..........
You're wasting your time. You asked me to give you one good reason to keep talking to me, but I didn't give you one.

Just talk to yourself.
 

GeneZ

Well-known member
You're still cut off. There's still time to change.


I know right now. All knees will bow and tongue confess. That includes Jesus.


Sorry, I don't take Revelation seriously nor the rest of the NT for that matter.
Fine...... I wish you well.. Not hell.
 
Top