If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?
- Thread starter sk0rpi0n
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johnny guitar
Well-known member
They DON'T.
The Father said "This is my Son"
The Son said "God is my Father." (Psa 89:26 "He shall cry unto me, Thou art my father, my God, and the rock of my salvation.")
1 Corinthians 8:6
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.Get with the scriptures Johnny G.
Shulammite
Member
And people bow and curtsy to the queen of England and she is no king David nor a preserver of the Holy Covenant and for sure not a holy servant of the One Triune God. David was a king, that is protocol. Not only that, he was also commissioned to preserve worship to the One True God. So, your point?
Shulammite
Member
No, it proves honor can rightly be given to a servant of God. For honor that is given is given to God who exults the lowly and humble to a place of honor before man. That honor, therefore, is being given to God who they represent as ambassadors of His purpose. They direct all to praise and worship of God. That is evident with Joseph, David and Daniel, with all the patriarchs and matriarchs for that matter, of the faith.
Shulammite
Member
No, Nebuchadnezzar would only fall down and pay Daniel homage because he believed in Daniel's God. That is evident in the account.
Daniel 2:46-47 Nebuchadnezzar Promotes Daniel
46At this, King Nebuchadnezzar fell on his face, paid homage to Daniel, and ordered that an offering of incense be presented to him. 47The king said to Daniel, “Your God is truly the God of gods and Lord of kings, the Revealer of Mysteries, since you were able to reveal this mystery.”…
Whether there was an ebb and flow well that is another matter. It is clear once God was introduced to Neb, to God's final proofing of Neb, there is a faith established in Neb to the one true God. Things were raw back then and this God of the Hebrews was a metal worker. You get touched by His hand best believe you will bend. God is the designer of the rise and fall of many kings.
From what I wrote earlier:
Daniel was a prophet and may have been aware that God would handle the intense idolatry of Nebuchadnezzar (see also chapter 3)
Daniel 3:14
Nebuchadnezzar responded and said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the golden image that I have set up?
That doesn't agree with your assertion that, "there is a faith established in Neb to the one true God."
Shulammite
Member
You misunderstand the term and title - "Son of David". From the Hebrew understanding this is a term and title which means the lineage of David. The Messiah had to have a direct blood line from David in fulfillment of prophecy. In Christ's Incarnation from His Elect mother's flesh, He establishes that blood line to its desired means- Him. That is why it is written
Luke 1:31-33
Gabriel Foretells Jesus' Birth
…31Behold, you will conceive and give birth to a son, and you are to give Him the name Jesus. 32He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David, 33and He will reign over the house of Jacob forever. His kingdom will never end!”…
" Father David" here simply applies ( concerning the flesh ). David was here before God came/was born of the flesh but not here before God obviously. It is in that lineage the throne is established. So, 'Son of David' simply is a title which supports Christ's chosen lineage. Just like 'Son of Man ' simply means born of man/became a man. God became a Son of Man. Which leads us to the title 'Son of God', He is the only begotten of God the Father- conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a woman. Lastly, bringing us to 'God the Son', its meaning seems to baffle people. It is just this simple, He is God in the second personification - revealed to man in form of man to show- teach man, in the likeness, relatable, tangibly identifiable way.
Philippians 2:
5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus,[a] 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,[b] 7 but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant,[c] being born in the likeness of men.
We all know, being able to relate is the best teaching tool.
But I digress, Luke proves the fulfillment of prophecy in the Psalm of David..
Psalm 132:16-18
Remember David's Affliction
…16I will clothe her priests with salvation, and her saints will sing out in joy. 17There I will make a horn grow for David; I have prepared a lamp for My anointed one. 18I will clothe his enemies with shame, but the crown upon him will gleam.”…
Shulammite
Member
Thanks for sharing. I understand what you are saying. Maybe I need to be more clear. There was a process going on ( I did mention that ebb and flow thing). The end game was to establish Daniel's God as God with Neb, was my point. I get what you are saying, and I agree -
"From what I wrote earlier:
Daniel was a prophet and may have been aware that God would handle the intense idolatry of Nebuchadnezzar (see also chapter 3)"
And God did handle Neb.
It was a chipping away process is my point, King Nebuchadnezzar went from being a man who demanded that everyone worship him as God to a man who submitted his life to the God of the Bible. Daniel 3:28–30 and 4:34–37 declare that King Nebuchadnezzar indeed became a believer and a follower of the God of the Bible.
Daniel 3:28-30 28 Then Nebuchadnezzar spake, and said, Blessed be the God of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego, who hath sent his angel, and delivered his servants that trusted in him, and have changed the king's word, and yielded their bodies, that they might not serve nor worship any god, except their own God.
Nebuchadnezzar Restored
4:34-37 At the end of the days I, Nebuchadnezzar, lifted my eyes to heaven, and my reason returned to me, and I blessed the Most High, and praised and honored him who lives forever,for his dominion is an everlasting dominion,
and his kingdom endures from generation to generation;
35 all the inhabitants of the earth are accounted as nothing,
and he does according to his will among the host of heaven
and among the inhabitants of the earth;
and none can stay his hand
or say to him, “What have you done?”
36 At the same time my reason returned to me, and for the glory of my kingdom, my majesty and splendor returned to me. My counselors and my lords sought me, and I was established in my kingdom, and still more greatness was added to me. 37 Now I, Nebuchadnezzar, praise and extol and honor the King of heaven, for all his works are right and his ways are just; and those who walk in pride he is able to humble.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
ONE Lord, who is God.
Shulammite
Member
Do you ever wonder why people are always pretexting? Context seems to elude some. I pray that all men would get the big picture. Jesus is Lord and God- second personification revealed of the one Triune God.
Actually, those words aren't found in the bible. You need to ask yourself why. I've already given you the answer: whatever truth they convey, and there is an element of truth given Jn 1:1, where the Word denotes the power of God, they are overshaddowed by their Sabellian connotation, which is why they aren't found in the lips of the apostles. Rather Jesus is at the right hand of God, or Jesus is the power of God, but now always "..... of God."
Seems you want to invent your own theology distinct from the apostles, Johnny G? Why is that?
Jesus is Lord, but Jesus remains completely distinct and distinctive from the Father.
What prophecy did I give?this is what a defeated false prophet response looks like.
I read that it was Jesus who said he had been sent.
PS: your attempt to make Jesus is the Last qua God is false prophecy indeed. Indeed it is so heretical that it immediately casts you into the stratospheric realms of the gnostic elites.
Where Jesus is said to be the first and the last, the reference is to creation, not to God. Thus Jesus is the beginning of the creation of God. Revelation 3:14. He is also the end. It doesn't mean he is the last mutation or identity of God: such is precluded by 1 Cor 15:24.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
The Word WAS God.
End of story.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Indeed, Jesus is the ORIGIN of the creation of God, the beginning and end of everything, which means He is God.
sk0rpi0n
Active member
The point is that if David aka "son of God" received prostrations and is correctly understood as being nothing more than a man, the same thing has to apply to Jesus.
sk0rpi0n
Active member
The Messiah had to be from David's lineage. No disagreements there. But that simply means the messiah is not God, but a human being like David. Because the Eternal God does not come from a "lineage".
If Jesus is God, and if Jesus also is of David's lineage, then it follows David is "God's" ancestor, which is ABSURD to even think of.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Indeed, your post is A
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
You missed the point however, for the point is, that the same exact OT Hebrew word used for worship of God is used also for what was given to Joseph and David.
Therefore, this proves that just because the same exact word is used, it doesn't mean that it is worship of God, for then you would have to say that David and Joseph were also God just like you attempt to do with Jesus also.
Thus this proves that the same exact word used of worship unto God can also be used to only mean honor and reverence to a king or or someone in authority over others and which then proves that you cannot force the word used in the case of Jesus to mean that he was being worshiped as God.