If Jesus Is God Then He Is The Father

You just stripped Jesus of his individuality.
All incarnationists do.
None of you folks believe the words of Jesus as he speaks of his God as another individual.

What do you mean by "individuality"? I believe the Father is a different person from Jesus. Under that definition of individuality, I'm not stripping Jesus of his individuality. He is both individuality distinct from God the Father while being the one and only God with the Father. If you mean by individuality an ontological distinction, then Scripture itself denies such a distinction. My recognition of Scriptural truth cannot be considered as stripping anything. Frankly, it seems like your equivocating both definitions as sneak in the idea of Unitarianism without ever openly setting out said axiom.

None of you folks believe the Apostles as they also speak of the individuality of the man Christ Jesus and his God.

Interesting statement given that Trinitarians speak of a personal distinction between the Father and the Son. We believe both/and, you believe one or the other. Why do you think that is?

All of you are presuppositionist, Roman Catholics.

What are you talking about? Presuppositionalist are Reformed. Roman Catholics are do not hold to the same ideas. Please, define your terms.

God Bless
 
What do you mean by "individuality"? I believe the Father is a different person from Jesus. Under that definition of individuality, I'm not stripping Jesus of his individuality. He is both individuality distinct from God the Father while being the one and only God with the Father. If you mean by individuality an ontological distinction, then Scripture itself denies such a distinction. My recognition of Scriptural truth cannot be considered as stripping anything. Frankly, it seems like your equivocating both definitions as sneak in the idea of Unitarianism without ever openly setting out said axiom.



Interesting statement given that Trinitarians speak of a personal distinction between the Father and the Son. We believe both/and, you believe one or the other. Why do you think that is?



What are you talking about? Presuppositionalist are Reformed. Roman Catholics are do not hold to the same ideas. Please, define your terms.


God Bless
Good to hear from you again.

Jesus has a human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit.

He is a redo of the 1st Adam.

He consistently said that God is someone other than himself.

The incarnationists have stripped Jesus' sayings away from him because they are blinded by the RCC.

They deny this especially...

And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.

They melt down over Jesus saying that only God was good and someone other than himself.

Christendom is confounded over this verse and many other verses I can post because of their RCC incarnationist presuppositions.

They call it "an unsolveable mystery".
 
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him...


Comprende?
LOL, LOL, LOL, that's your best? well comprehend this, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Form is NATURE..... and God is "A" Spirit..... :cool: now try again.

:ninja:
 
GINOLJC, to all.
This is the mentality we all must deal with. be ye oneness, or trinitarian.

"Jesus has a human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit."

this statement is the flesh of man's mind speaking, and not from God's mind. let's take this one step at a time.

Step A. Man is an "IMAGE" of God, who is a Spirit, that manifested in human flesh as or in the FORM of God, the likeness of God, THAT WAS TO COME AFTER HIS RESURRECTION. who is the FIRST, and LAST Adam. yes God. (The First and Last Adam)/ how do we know this? answer, an IMAGE is not the SOURCE, or the original. an Image come from the Source who is God in GLORIFIED FLESH in the end of this creation, and this TIME. so the Source must have COME FIRST, then the IMAGE "AFTER". supportive scripture, LISTEN CAREFULLY. Isaiah 46:8 "Remember this and shew yourselves men: bring it again to mind, O ye transgressors." Isaiah 46:9 "Remember the former things of old: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,"
Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

STOP AND THINK PEOPLE. God is the beginning and the ........ "END" of all things. in the END, (of this creation), God is Glorified in Flesh, Isaiah saw this in Chapter 6, and John saw it all throughout the book of revelation, especially in chapter 4 & 5. the IMAGE we see in the MIRROR is only a reflection of the REAL MAN, who is God, (IN FLESH, without Blood). always remember we're his CREATION, made in "his" image, we are not the real deal, we're creatures of his. let that sink in. and no, this is not the Matrix. THIS IS GOD, Acts 17:24 "God that made the world and all things therein, seeing that he is Lord of heaven and earth, dwelleth not in temples made with hands;" LISTEN REAL GOOD, Acts 17:28 "For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."

AGAIN. this is not the Matrix. THIS IS GOD. people, we need to know, the difference between “foretelling” and “forthtelling” in prophecy.

knowing this that the First (Human) Man Adam, the Creature is Just that an IMAGE. not REAL, (on in this reality that we LIVE IN).

STEP #2. God, "TOOK ON", and was not a "PARTAKER" in our humanity. layman's term.... he took on the Form of his own IMAGE, (*that which was to come), Flesh & bone without blood. Remember God is a Spirit, without flesh, bone, and blood .... IN, IN, IN, the Beginning, in TIME, of this creation, keep that in mind. supportive scripture, Hebrews 2:14 "Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;" THERE IT IS, "TOOK PART" VS "PARTAKE". know the difference.

STEP #3. the Source that gave the IMAGE is the RESURRECTED MAN, or the NEW MAN. supportive scriptures... #1. 1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?" 1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:" 1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:" 1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body."

1 Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds." 1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another."

#2. 2 Corinthians 5:16 "Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more." 2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new."

understand Clearly. God has one NATURE, Spirit, who dwells ...... dwells in a tabernacle or a body/house that is GLORIFIED. the IMAGE that was "FORMED" in Genesis 1 is only a reflection/Likness/ figure of what he rose with in the RESURRECTION in the END.

so the foretelling is clear in Isaiah 46:10 "Declaring the end from the beginning, and from ancient times the things that are not yet done, saying, My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure:"

but the forthtelling of 2 Corinthians 5:17, and 1 Corinthians 15:38 is clear. .... Giod is a Spirit, that dwell in Glorified Flesh and Bone, supportive scripture, Revelation 22:4 "And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads."

Notice ..... "his FACE" not "Their FACES". only ONE FACE, who is ONE PERSON, WHO FACE WE WILL SEE, WHEN HE RETURNS.

:ninja:
 
Good to hear from you again.
Jesus has a human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit.

What do you mean by "individuality apart from God"? Again, Trinitarians admit the Jesus human nature has nothing to do with his divine nature outside of the singular person associated with each. The person of God the Father is apart from that human nature. So, what about your statement makes it meaningful in this discussion?

He is a redo of the 1st Adam.
He consistently said that God is someone other than himself.

No disagreement here at all. How is this meaningful?

The incarnationists have stripped Jesus' sayings away from him because they are blinded by the RCC.

In what way have Trinitarians, RCC included, "stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?

They deny this especially...
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
They melt down over Jesus saying that only God was good and someone other than himself.

In what way does Jesus say "someone other than himself" in this verse?

Christendom is confounded over this verse and many other verses I can post because of their RCC incarnationist presuppositions.
They call it "an unsolveable mystery".

Interesting, I hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches. It's not like I'm here saying "Wow, that's a challenging verse." In reality, I'm scratching my head wondering why anyone would think this is a problem for Trinitarianism.

God Bless
 
What do you mean by "individuality"? I believe the Father is a different person from Jesus.
HOW?

I don't know how. I just know that:
  1. There is only one God.
  2. The Father is that one God.
  3. Jesus is that one God.
  4. The Holy Spirit is that one God.
  5. And, the Father, Son and Spirit are personally distinct.

Because, that's what Scripture teaches.


Truther said:
Jesus has a human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit.
where is the scripture that says that? book chapter and verse please

:ninja:

I didn't say that. You would have to ask Truther for his justification of such.

God Bless
 
LOL, LOL, LOL, that's your best? well comprehend this, Philippians 2:6 "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:"
Form is NATURE..... and God is "A" Spirit..... :cool: now try again.

:ninja:
God was in the form of Spirit?
 
What do you mean by "individuality apart from God"? Again, Trinitarians admit the Jesus human nature has nothing to do with his divine nature outside of the singular person associated with each. The person of God the Father is apart from that human nature. So, what about your statement makes it meaningful in this discussion?

Where does it say in the Bible that God has a human nature?

No disagreement here at all. How is this meaningful?



In what way have Trinitarians, RCC included,
"stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?

Oneness has stripped Jesus' true identity along with trins. They all teach Jesus is bi-existent.

In what way does Jesus say "someone other than himself" in this verse?

..." me good...there is none good, but God..."

Interesting, I hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches. It's not like I'm here saying "Wow, that's a challenging verse." In reality, I'm scratching my head wondering why anyone would think this is a problem for Trinitarianism.

God Bless

Don't feel alone, oneness is also involved in Jesus' identity theft case.
 
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Incarnationists..."he kinda has a God and kinda doesn't". o_O
 
I don't know how. I just know that:
  1. There is only one God.
  2. The Father is that one God.
  3. Jesus is that one God.
  4. The Holy Spirit is that one God.
  5. And, the Father, Son and Spirit are personally distinct.

Because, that's what Scripture teaches.
the Bible, and 101G, disagree with your assessment, and here's why. your #5, if true, please reconcile the person/persons as to WHO MADE ALL THINGS, according to John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. is this the same one person in both scriptures who MADE ALL THINGS.

We suggest you read both scriptures and remember the person in Isaiah 44:24 states that he was "ALONE" and by HIMSELF, meaning he didn't go through anyone.

I didn't say that. You would have to ask Truther for his justification of such.
thanks, I did

and you be blessed also

:ninja:
 
God was in the form of Spirit?
ERROR, 1/2 ERROR JESUS is God, and ... "BEING" as Phil 2:6 states, this was speaking of the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal last, who came in flesh.
so again, where is this human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit? Book chapter, and Verse please.

:ninja:
 
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


Incarnationists..."he kinda has a God and kinda doesn't". o_O
kinda NONE as in NONESENSE.

the phrase "my God", is him, his Spirit, now using the same verse u gave, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

my God how hard is it to understand, "my God" is ME, MY is possessive. just as in Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old."

the ME here is the WISDOM of the "LORD", the same person. watch.... "MY Actions saved a life in a car accident" who saved a life in the care accident? answer.... "ME". ...... this cannot be that hard to understand...... my "ACTION" save a life, which is me.

:ninja:
 
What do you mean by "individuality apart from God"? Again, Trinitarians admit the Jesus human nature has nothing to do with his divine nature outside of the singular person associated with each. The person of God the Father is apart from that human nature. So, what about your statement makes it meaningful in this discussion?
Where does it say in the Bible that God has a human nature?

I didn't say or imply God the Father has a human nature. The second person of the Trinity does: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Phil 2:5-7

No disagreement here at all. How is this meaningful?
In what way have Trinitarians, RCC included,
"stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?
Oneness has stripped Jesus' true identity along with trins. They all teach Jesus is bi-existent.

I'm not Oneness. What on earth is "bi-existent"? How does that strip Jesus? Again, in what way have Trinitarians, RCC included, "stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?

In what way does Jesus say "someone other than himself" in this verse?
..." me good...there is none good, but God..."

That doesn't say "someone other than himself". You do realize people speak about themselves in the third person. And, Jesus is known to do that a lot.

Interesting, I hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches. It's not like I'm here saying "Wow, that's a challenging verse." In reality, I'm scratching my head wondering why anyone would think this is a problem for Trinitarianism.
Don't feel alone, oneness is also involved in Jesus' identity theft case.

I still hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches.

God Bless
 
I didn't say or imply God the Father has a human nature. The second person of the Trinity does: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Phil 2:5-7
this is a shame to butcher a scripture like this. but let's examine your scripture. "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped", so what did he count?

looking to hear from u

:ninja:
 
ERROR, 1/2 ERROR JESUS is God, and ... "BEING" as Phil 2:6 states, this was speaking of the Lord Jesus, the Ordinal last, who came in flesh.
so again, where is this human individuality apart from God, which is Spirit? Book chapter, and Verse please.

:ninja:
Of course Jesus is God because his God made him God...

8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.

9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
 
kinda NONE as in NONESENSE.

the phrase "my God", is him, his Spirit, now using the same verse u gave, Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name."

my God how hard is it to understand, "my God" is ME, MY is possessive. just as in Proverbs 8:22 "The LORD possessed me in the beginning of his way, before his works of old."

the ME here is the WISDOM of the "LORD", the same person. watch.... "MY Actions saved a life in a car accident" who saved a life in the care accident? answer.... "ME". ...... this cannot be that hard to understand...... my "ACTION" save a life, which is me.

:ninja:
Does Jesus, right now in heaven, have a God or not?
 
I didn't say or imply God the Father has a human nature. The second person of the Trinity does: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Phil 2:5-7



I'm not Oneness. What on earth is "bi-existent"? How does that strip Jesus? Again, in what way have Trinitarians, RCC included, "stripped Jesus' sayings away from him"? You made this accusation; can you justify it?



That doesn't say
"someone other than himself". You do realize people speak about themselves in the third person. And, Jesus is known to do that a lot.



I still hear a lot of accusations, but all I see is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Trinitarianism teaches.


God Bless
The 2nd person is God and God has a human nature?

What verse is that(God's human nature) found in?

Or, the 2nd person is technically not qualified as God, making him human?
 
I don't know how. I just know that:
  1. There is only one God.
  2. The Father is that one God.
  3. Jesus is that one God.
  4. The Holy Spirit is that one God.
  5. And, the Father, Son and Spirit are personally distinct.
Because, that's what Scripture teaches.
the Bible, and 101G, disagree with your assessment, and here's why. your #5, if true, please reconcile the person/persons as to WHO MADE ALL THINGS, according to John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24. is this the same one person in both scriptures who MADE ALL THINGS.

We suggest you read both scriptures and remember the person in Isaiah 44:24 states that he was "ALONE" and by HIMSELF, meaning he didn't go through anyone.

:ninja:

All three persons are attributed as being the one who made all things. Remember 1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist." How it all works out, what exactly is implied by these different prepositions, we don't know. Yet, John 14:16-17 clearly distinguishes them personally by saying "And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, to be with you forever, even the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it neither sees him nor knows him. You know him, for he dwells with you and will be in you." In light of both, one must conclude that in some sense they are one and in another they are multiple. Given passages like John 14:16-17, we attribute plurality to personhood, given the personal pronouns. Given passage like Deuteronomy 6:4, we attribute their singularity to ontology. Beyond that, the figuring out how this works out, we leave as Scripture leaves it, in mystery.

I didn't say or imply God the Father has a human nature. The second person of the Trinity does: "Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped, but emptied himself, by taking the form of a servant, being born in the likeness of men." Phil 2:5-7
this is a shame to butcher a scripture like this. but let's examine your scripture. "though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped", so what did he count?

looking to hear from u

:ninja:

Count? Equality implies two are equal in something. If one denies there are two in some sense, pre-incarnation, then he is categorically denying the very wording of this passage.

God Bless
 
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