If regeneration irrevocably imparts a sense of guilt then.....

praise_yeshua

Active member
2 Corinthians 7:9-10 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret

Many Calvinists are walking contradicts to the very things they teach. If such things are of God's perfect imparting, then why are you not ALL equally repentant and assuredly an exacting image of such imparting?

In other words, the proof is right in front of you. It IS you.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
2 Corinthians 7:9-10 As it is, I rejoice, not because you were grieved, but because you were grieved into repenting. For you felt a godly grief, so that you suffered no loss through us. For godly grief produces a repentance that leads to salvation without regret

Many Calvinists are walking contradicts to the very things they teach. If such things are of God's perfect imparting, then why are you not ALL equally repentant and assuredly an exacting image of such imparting?

In other words, the proof is right in front of you. It IS you.
Do you know what you are talking about ? I sure dont !
 

Redeemed

Active member
Do you know what you are talking about ? I sure dont !

What I've been taught is that regeneration is the sovereign work of God that precedes our salvation. That regeneration proceeds faith that it's a spiritual rebirth and the beginning of our life in Christ. It's the first step, AND the thing is you have to take the first step before you can take the second step. You see spiritually dead people don't suddenly develop faith on their own that would cause God to regenerate them. It's more like faith is the root of the regeneration God performs in our hearts. Here's what the Bible says about that:

“Even when we were dead in our trespasses, [God] made us alive together with Christ” (Eph. 2:4b).

We are born again (regenerated), then we come to faith, then we are justified, and then we begin to undergo the lifelong sanctification process (Rom. 8:30). That would be the Christian life.

In short, regeneration is a sovereign work of God. In other words, God exercises His power and His authority over us in His time and His way to bring about the regeneration of our heart.

Here's why this is important, because many people understand regeneration as merely an activity of moral persuasion where God woos or entices us to change and to come in His direction. In order for us to desire the things of God, He has to make us alive, and and that right there is a sovereign act of God.

As stated above how we live after we we are saved is called Sanctification. I think that's more in line with the teaching of the Bible than what's stated in the OP.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
What I've been taught is that regeneration is the sovereign work of God that precedes our salvation. That regeneration proceeds faith that it's a spiritual rebirth and the beginning of our life in Christ. It's the first step, AND the thing is you have to take the first step before you can take the second step. You see spiritually dead people don't suddenly develop faith on their own that would cause God to regenerate them. It's more like faith is the root of the regeneration God performs in our hearts. Here's what the Bible says about that:

“Even when we were dead in our trespasses, [God] made us alive together with Christ” (Eph. 2:4b).

We are born again (regenerated), then we come to faith, then we are justified, and then we begin to undergo the lifelong sanctification process (Rom. 8:30). That would be the Christian life.

In short, regeneration is a sovereign work of God. In other words, God exercises His power and His authority over us in His time and His way to bring about the regeneration of our heart.

Here's why this is important, because many people understand regeneration as merely an activity of moral persuasion where God woos or entices us to change and to come in His direction. In order for us to desire the things of God, He has to make us alive, and and that right there is a sovereign act of God.

As stated above how we live after we we are saved is called Sanctification. I think that's more in line with the teaching of the Bible than what's stated in the OP.
You said a couple of good things I will grant you that. At least you can see that newbirth/regeneration is before faith. I have been contending that here for a minute. You have not noticed?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You said a couple of good things I will grant you that. At least you can see that newbirth/regeneration is before faith. I have been contending that here for a minute. You have not noticed?
Not very well

as the scriptures are all against you
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You said a couple of good things I will grant you that. At least you can see that newbirth/regeneration is before faith. I have been contending that here for a minute. You have not noticed?
And you had no real evidence just a few out of context claims while you ignored evidence to the contrary
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
Do you know what you are talking about ? I sure dont !

Read those verses again.

Godly grief PRODUCES repentance. Or REPENTANCE is a product of Godly Grief.

That isn't what Calvinism teaches.

Also, if such IS the product of the irresistible imparting of God, then the proof is in the Calvinist themselves. Whom are anything but repentant themselves.

Get it?
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Read those verses again.

Godly grief PRODUCES repentance. Or REPENTANCE is a product of Godly Grief.

That isn't what Calvinism teaches.

Also, if such IS the product of the irresistible imparting of God, then the proof is in the Calvinist themselves. Whom are anything but repentant themselves.

Get it?
Godly sorrow comes from a godly source. That source would be the new man. A unregenerate ungodly spiritually dead person cannot be the source of Godly sorrow!
 

praise_yeshua

Active member
Godly sorrow comes from a godly source. That source would be the new man. A unregenerate ungodly spiritually dead person cannot be the source of Godly sorrow!

The Scriptures referenced says very clear that Godly Sorrow brings repentance. That isn't what Calvinism teaches. You know it isn't. You can talk around it all you want but it will not change that fact.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Godly sorrow comes from a godly source. That source would be the new man. A unregenerate ungodly spiritually dead person cannot be the source of Godly sorrow!
Repentance precedes regeneration (which imparts life)

Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Repentance precedes regeneration (which imparts life)

Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”
Repentance as Faith are gifts of regeneration, spiritual life !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Repentance as Faith are gifts of regeneration, spiritual life !
Sorry faith and repentance precede regeneration as show by man verses

The one you ignored being one


Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”

this another

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry faith and repentance precede regeneration as show by man verses

The one you ignored being one


Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”

this another

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”
See a spiritually dead person cannot do spiritual acts, such as repent and believe. Christ gives those He is a Saviour to both repentance and faith. He makes them alive, because as risen Saviour He quickens them. 1 Cor 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now that word quickening means:

life-giving.


to make alive
Usage: I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken

So Jesus gives those He died for spiritual life, that causes them to live spiritually, and then out of that comes repentance and faith. Christ gets the credit for His people He died for, coming to repentance. Its part of the Saving result of the Cross of His !

I know you cannot receive this, but I testify the truth !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
See a spiritually dead person cannot do spiritual acts, such as repent and believe. Christ gives those He is a Saviour to both repentance and faith. He makes them alive, because as risen Saviour He quickens them. 1 Cor 15:45

And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

Now that word quickening means:

life-giving.


to make alive
Usage: I make that which was dead to live, cause to live, quicken

So Jesus gives those He died for spiritual life, that causes them to live spiritually, and then out of that comes repentance and faith. Christ gets the credit for His people He died for, coming to repentance. Its part of the Saving result of the Cross of His !

I know you cannot receive this, but I testify the truth !
See scripture contradicts you

Sorry faith and repentance precede regeneration as show by man verses

The one you ignored being one


Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”

this another

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

BTW the passage you quote is about the resurrection and says nothing at all about regeneration before faith
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
See scripture contradicts you

Sorry faith and repentance precede regeneration as show by man verses

The one you ignored being one


Acts 11:18 —KJV
“When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.”

this another

John 20:31 —KJV
“But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.”

BTW the passage you quote is about the resurrection and says nothing at all about regeneration before faith
So a spiritually dead person can't do anything until Christ makes them alive
 
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