If salvation is predetermined, why pray for the salvation of others?

Slyzr

Well-known member
Why did Paul pray for the salvation of Israel if that is predetermined?
. . . my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. Romcircumcised.ans 10:1

Paul was taking priority with his gospel.

No more circumcision ....... ?

And if you get circumcised. ...... then Christ / or christ if you prefer will be of no benefit to you.

Of course the Jew's rejected Paul for saying such.


as circumcision was one of their covenant traditions.

Perhaps the most paramount.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Why did Paul pray for the salvation of Israel if that is predetermined?
. . . my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. Romans 10:1

Prayer isn't to get God to "do things" for us.
Prayer is to get our wills in conformance with God's own.

Why did Paul pray for the salvation of Israel if people are saved by their "free will", outside of God's influence?
 

Slyzr

Well-known member

“If salvation is predetermined, why pray for the salvation of others?”​


Because we are commanded to.

Not looking to speak for the OP .....

However, it seemed to be Paul was praying for the Jew's to not be?

Of course then he doubled down on Israel being the true vine.


and those in christ could be cut off, if they don't conform to Jesus.

Paul was an evangelist ...... no one matters just die .....
 
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Theophilos

Active member
Prayer isn't to get God to "do things" for us.
Prayer is to get our wills in conformance with God's own.

Why did Paul pray for the salvation of Israel if people are saved by their "free will", outside of God's influence?
It is also a question of helping each other to stay on the right path:

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20 NKJV

. . . they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” Mark 2:4-5
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
It is also a question of helping each other to stay on the right path:

Brethren, if anyone among you wanders from the truth, and someone turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save a soul from death and cover a multitude of sins. James 5:19-20 NKJV

You really think that's about praying?

. . . they could not come near Him because of the crowd, they uncovered the roof where He was. So when they had broken through, they let down the bed on which the paralytic was lying. When Jesus saw their faith, He said to the paralytic, “Son, your sins are forgiven you.” Mark 2:4-5

What does that have to do with praying?
 

Theophilos

Active member
You really think that's about praying?



What does that have to do with praying?
Praying for others is one form of assistance. So is actually helping them directly.

If salvation is predetermined, then how is it even possible for someone to turn a sinner around to save his soul?
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
If salvation is predetermined, then how is it even possible for someone to turn a sinner around to save his soul?

Your question makes no sense.

It's like asking, "If it rained last night, then how is it even possible for their to be puddles in the road?"
 

Theophilos

Active member
Your question makes no sense.

It's like asking, "If it rained last night, then how is it even possible for their to be puddles in the road?"
If humans have zero impact on salvation, then someone getting a sinner to turn back makes about as much sense as someone getting a hurricane to turn back.

According to Calvinism, sinners will either repent they were part of the elect or they were never part of the elect to the begin with. Either way, the outcome is predetermined and there is nothing that any person can do to change it.

Who does that belief reconcile with the passage from James?
 
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Theophilos

Active member

“If salvation is predetermined, why pray for the salvation of others?”​


Because we are commanded to.
And God answers prayers:

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! Matthew 7:7-11
 
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