If salvation is predetermined, why pray for the salvation of others?

SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Theophilos said:
And God answers prayers:

Ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. For everyone who asks receives, and he who seeks finds, and to him who knocks it will be opened. Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone? Or if he asks for a fish, will he give him a serpent? If you then, being evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father who is in heaven give good things to those who ask Him! Matthew 7:7-11
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This was directed toward believers.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
Unbelievers can ask God for understanding.
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God doesn’t acknowledge their prayers. The only way one can pray to God is to the Father through the name of Jesus. The lost don’t have the authority to pray in name of Jesus. It’d be like a civilian telling a lawbreaker to stop in the name of the law. They can’t do that as they don’t have the authority to do it. Same with prayer. The unregenerate don’t have the authority to pray in the name of Jesus.
 
SovereignGrace

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
The eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous
And His ears are open to their cry. The face of the Lord is against evildoers,
To cut off the memory of them from the earth. The righteous cry, and the Lord hears
And delivers them out of all their troubles. The Lord is near to the brokenhearted
And saves those who are crushed in spirit.[Psalm 34:15-18]

“For the eyes of the Lord are toward the righteous,
And His ears attend to their prayer,
But the face of the Lord is against those who do evil.”[1 Peter 3:12]

God only acknowledges the prayers of the regenerate.
 
Theophilos

Theophilos

Well-known member
PeanutGallery said:
To the believers; where does it state it is only for the believers?
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Yes, the passage is from the Sermon on the Mount. The audience is included his disciples along with "great crowds followed him from Galilee and the Decapolis, and from Jerusalem and Judea, and from beyond the Jordan" Mat 4:25.

Galilee, Jerusalem, and Judea had mainly Jewish populations; Decapolis and areas from beyond the Jordan were mainly gentiles.
 
L

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Theophilos said:
Why did Paul pray for the salvation of Israel if that is predetermined?
. . . my heart’s desire and prayer to God for Israel is that they may be saved. Romans 10:1
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We don't know who the chosen elect are, correct? So, we are not assume it. Keep reading the run of the passages to get your answer. These brothers of Paul had a zeal for God but not according to knowledge. What knowledge is Paul referring to, here? The Gospel, to how a sinner is justified before a Holy God. Romans 10:2 For I bear them witness that they have a zeal for God, but not according to knowledge. 3 For, being ignorant of the righteousness of God, and seeking to establish their own, they did not submit to God’s righteousness. 4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to everyone who believes.

They don't believe that God imputes or accounts Christ's righteousness to sinners who believe God who justifies the ungodly by the righteousness of Christ, and not by trying to establish your own, which will never measure up, it's like us trying to touch the milky way with out hands. But these Jews believe they can seek to establish their own righteousness apart from Grace and they do not submit to God's righteousness!

Now, let's continue to the following verses: 5 For Moses writes about the righteousness that is based on the law, that the person who does the commandments shall live by them. 6 But the righteousness based on faith says, “Do not say in your heart, ‘Who will ascend into heaven?’” (that is, to bring Christ down) 7 “or ‘Who will descend into the abyss?’” (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).

This is why Paul prays for them to be saved, he doesn't know if they are the Elect or not.
 
G

guest1

Guest
SovereignGrace said:
God doesn’t acknowledge their prayers. The only way one can pray to God is to the Father through the name of Jesus. The lost don’t have the authority to pray in name of Jesus. It’d be like a civilian telling a lawbreaker to stop in the name of the law. They can’t do that as they don’t have the authority to do it. Same with prayer. The unregenerate don’t have the authority to pray in the name of Jesus.
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Yep what he said. :)
 
Theophilos

Theophilos

Well-known member
SovereignGrace said:
God doesn’t acknowledge their prayers. The only way one can pray to God is to the Father through the name of Jesus. The lost don’t have the authority to pray in name of Jesus. It’d be like a civilian telling a lawbreaker to stop in the name of the law. They can’t do that as they don’t have the authority to do it. Same with prayer. The unregenerate don’t have the authority to pray in the name of Jesus.
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God acknowledged the prayers and good works of Cornelius, a gentile non-Christian:
There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, “Cornelius!”

And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, “What is it, lord?”

So he said to him, “Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. . . Acts 10:1-4 NKJV
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PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
civic said:
Where does the Bible say it’s written to unbelievers ?

Is Scripture a spiritual book or not a spiritual book ?
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Yes, a spiritual book, not a gnostic book.
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
SovereignGrace said:
God doesn’t acknowledge their prayers. The only way one can pray to God is to the Father through the name of Jesus. The lost don’t have the authority to pray in name of Jesus. It’d be like a civilian telling a lawbreaker to stop in the name of the law. They can’t do that as they don’t have the authority to do it. Same with prayer. The unregenerate don’t have the authority to pray in the name of Jesus.
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To pray what exactly?
 
G

guest1

Guest
PeanutGallery said:
Yes, a spiritual book, not a gnostic book.
Acts 17:26 And hath made of one blood all nations of men for to dwell on all the face of the earth, and hath determined the times before appointed, and the bounds of their habitation;
Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
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So one must be spiritual to understand spiritual things not like the natural man who cannot understand spirit things as per 1 Cor 2. So the unbeliever who is not spiritual cannot understand the Bible .

hope this helps !!!
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
civic said:
So one must be spiritual to understand spiritual things not like the natural man who cannot understand spirit things as per 1 Cor 2. So the unbeliever who is not spiritual cannot understand the Bible .

hope this helps !!!
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There is a difference between understanding the deep things of God and seeking God.
 
PeanutGallery

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
civic said:
No there is a difference between a believer understand spiritual truth and an unbeliever who cannot understand spiritual truth just like Paul says regarding the natural man without the spirit .

next
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The context is believers not understanding the deep things of God.
1Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Unbelievers are able to understand the gospel before they are saved.
1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
 
G

guest1

Guest
PeanutGallery said:
The context is believers not understanding the deep things of God.
1Cor 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
1Cor 3:1 And I, brethren, could not speak unto you as unto spiritual, but as unto carnal, even as unto babes in Christ.

Unbelievers are able to understand the gospel before they are saved.
1Cor 15:1 Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
1Cor 15:2 By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain.
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Nice try I’m talking about the natural man in 1 Cor 2.

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