If someone says "a thousand years is not a literal thousand years,"

Truth7t7

Well-known member
Who are the two witnesses? I am very sure that it will be Enoch, and Esau, two who have not faced the whole it is appointed man once to die, and then the judgement. These two have never died. It fits like a glove.

This is why the rapture is a thing. Egypt was the location, but Goshen was separated from Egypt half way through the plagues (approximately). However, the Great Tribulation is not going to be a city, or a country, but the whole world. There is only one way to separate the church from the world, according to Paul, which is for the church to leave the world.

The church is not going to be there. Just as Goshen was separated from Egypt, so the church will be separated from the world.

You failed to understand what Paul is saying in Ephesians. We are sealed by the Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance until we take possession of it. In other words, we are sealed as belonging to God, and not to the world/Satan. This is why some (many?) Christians believe that believers cannot be possessed by demons. We are God's possession, filled by the Holy Spirit. Demons cannot take God's possession from Him, by possessing believers. This is also given as a reason why, when researching Alien abductions, there is not a SINGLE record of a born again believer being abducted, or visited. There are records of people who, in the process of being abduction, cried out to Jesus, and it ended at that moment.

You are forcing this onto Revelation. The only sealed on Earth during the tribulation are the 144,000, who are marked in Revelation. Their purpose is to go out preaching the gospel to those who are still on Earth. They are protected because they have God's mark on their forehead. (It is already different already.) They also preach destruction on the kingdom of the beast and his image.

So only the 144000 will not be affected.

Which is why it may not be a pretrib rapture, but a midtrib rapture, as Goshen was not separated from Egypt until half way through the plagues.

Don't allegorize prophecy. Jesus first coming was literally prophesied, and rather exactly. God has not changed, so there is no reason not to believe that Jesus second coming is prophesied literally as well. This is why church fathers and others say, if you take the second coming prophecies literally, premillennialism is all that is left.
Two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah who never experienced death

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of men, namely John N. Darby 1830's & C.I. Scofield 1909

No such things as aliens abducting humans on earth, sci-fi propaganda

The 144,000 will be saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and "Added" to the church present on earth during the tribulation

Jesus Is The Lord
 

Anthony

Active member
Just to clarify...

Is every reference to years in the Bible (not just prophetic passages) referring to 360-day periods of time?

So when the Bible says Adam lived 930 years, that means 930 x 360 days. Etc.

It seems like that is what you are saying, but could you please confirm or deny that.
None of the Patriarchs lived a complete 1000 years. The longest living was Methuselah- 969 years. Still fell sh ort of 1000 years. So it's Yeshua Messiah fulfilling the years for us.

Rev 20 ties up with Rev 12:
10 I heard a loud voice in heaven, saying, “Now the salvation, the power, and the Kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah has come; for the accuser of our brothers has been thrown down, who accuses them before our God day and night.

The OT brethren were accused by Satan because they were under the Torah of sin and death. But once Messiah paid up the full price for them and having risen from the dead, the accuser of the brethren is cast down. No. 10, 100, 1000 is the fullness of whatever is in view. Rev 20 speaks of the fullness of time Messiah is fulfilling for His people until Satan will be loosed near the end of time when Messiah's coming is imminent. We may be living close to this time. The Book of Revelation is in figurative language and taking everything literally will be problematic.

My 2 cents.
 

Anthony

Active member
Just to clarify...

Is every reference to years in the Bible (not just prophetic passages) referring to 360-day periods of time?

So when the Bible says Adam lived 930 years, that means 930 x 360 days. Etc.

It seems like that is what you are saying, but could you please confirm or deny that.
NT
 

armylngst

Well-known member
Two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah who never experienced death

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of men, namely John N. Darby 1830's & C.I. Scofield 1909
Actually there was a early church father (4th or 5th century) who wrote and taught about this. There was also a 14th century guy, by the name of Brother Dolcemo (or is that Dolcimo, if I remember the name correctly) who also taught a pre-trib rapture, all long before Darby. The lesson you must learn is that most, if not all modern beliefs, grew out of beliefs that have long existed with the church, whether the Catholic church, or the true church. For instance, the premillennialism found in Dispensationalism has actually existed from the 2nd century, in the beliefs of Chilianism, early church premillennialism. There are differences between them, but the main belief, premillennialism, is basically the same. Amillennialism grew out of preterism, to become partial preterism, perhaps to overcome the idea of the preterists which is that Jesus return is spiritual, because He didn't come physically to earth the first time, so Jesus is not returning physically a second time. The allegorizing of prophecy, while the prophecies of the first coming are quite literal.
No such things as aliens abducting humans on earth, sci-fi propaganda
No, it is absolute truth. However, the aliens are actually demons, and the abductions, while possibly quite real, are demonic. A Christian researcher in the 80's, Walter Martin, was doing research into UFOlogy, and the Occult. His camera man took one of the first actual pictures of a UFO that had actual evidence/witnesses to back it up. Walter Martin did not deny but said that the existence of UFOs is undeniable. However, if I recall, he linked it to demonology. I was young the time I saw him speak so I don't really remember much. One of those who was big in UFOlogy left the field simply because those in leadership would not include demonology as a possible source.
The 144,000 will be saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and "Added" to the church present on earth during the tribulation
Revelation 7 :"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth, holding back the four winds of the earth, that no wind might blow on earth or sea or against any tree. 2 Then I saw another angel ascending from the rising of the sun, with the seal of the living God, and he called with a loud voice to the four angels who had been given power to harm earth and sea, 3 saying, “Do not harm the earth or the sea or the trees, until we have sealed the servants of our God on their foreheads.” 4 And I heard the number of the sealed, 144,000, sealed from every tribe of the sons of Israel:"

This does not match what you said. Would you care to explain your eisogesis?
Jesus Is The Lord
Jesus is God.
 
Two witnesses will be Enoch and Elijah who never experienced death

There is no such thing as a pre-trib rapture found in scripture, it's a fabricated fairy tale of men, namely John N. Darby 1830's & C.I. Scofield 1909

No such things as aliens abducting humans on earth, sci-fi propaganda

The 144,000 will be saved and sealed by the Holy Spirit, and "Added" to the church present on earth during the tribulation

Jesus Is The Lord

What about all those who "are alive and remain"?

If death is a requirement for all and these two can not escape, then forget about the "are alive and remain" as well.
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
What about all those who "are alive and remain"?

If death is a requirement for all and these two can not escape, then forget about the "are alive and remain" as well.
You speak "Half Truth" as you cut the scripture short to suit your need

Scripture clearly teaches those that are alive and remain shall be "Caught Up" to those in the clouds

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 teaches that the living righteous will be changed at this time, receiving glorified immortal bodies

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 
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You speak "Half Truth" as you cut the scripture short to suit your need

Scripture clearly teaches those that are alive and remain shall be "Caught Up" to those in the clouds

1 Corinthians 15:51-54 teaches that the living righteous will be changed at this time, receiving glorified immortal bodies

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

"Caught up" like Enoch and Elijah, Right?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
"Caught up" like Enoch and Elijah, Right?
Caught Up and Changed as scripture clearly teaches, my words were clear and very easy to understand, don't twist them

"Caught Up"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"Changed"

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
 
Caught Up and Changed as scripture clearly teaches, my words were clear and very easy to understand, don't twist them

"Caught Up"

1 Thessalonians 4:15-17KJV
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"Changed"

1 Corinthians 15:51-54KJV
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

So you don't believe Enoch and Elijah were not changed?

Then how are they still alive if they were not changed?
 

Truth7t7

Well-known member
So you don't believe Enoch and Elijah were not changed?

Then how are they still alive if they were not changed?
The subject isn't Enoch and Elijah, as you move to divert from the topic

You have been clearly shown the living in Christ at the second coming will be "caught up" and "changed"

Jesus Is The Lord
 
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