If the DIVINE Son ever lost his DIVINE glory, he would no longer be DIVINE!

Professing TRINITARIANS on this forum often make NON-TRINITARIAN statements. For example...

The SON surrendered His Divine glory when He became a Man.


If the DIVINE Son ever lost his DIVINE glory, he would no longer be DIVINE!

That is why TRINITARIAN Catholic Catechism 469 says...

"What he was, he remained and what he was not, he assumed"


P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
Professing TRINITARIANS on this forum often make NON-TRINITARIAN statements. For example...





If the DIVINE Son ever lost his DIVINE glory, he would no longer be DIVINE!

That is why TRINITARIAN Catholic Catechism 469 says...

"What he was, he remained and what he was not, he assumed"


P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
I wouldn't use the word "surrendered". I believe "veiled" is much more appropriate. That is what I believe Philippians 2:6-8 is speaking about.
 
I wouldn't use the word "surrendered". I believe "veiled" is much more appropriate. That is what I believe Philippians 2:6-8 is speaking about.

Just to clarify your view...

The standard Trinitarian view is that the DIVINE nature of the second Person of the Trinity has ALWAYS been omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

You are saying the HUMAN nature of the second Person of the Trinity "veiled" his glory.

But are you saying that the DIVINE nature of the second Person of the Trinity "veiled" his glory?

In other words, in Heaven, did the second Person of the Trinity ever "surrender" or "veil" glory?

I am not exactly sure what you are saying.
 
Just to clarify your view...

The standard Trinitarian view is that the DIVINE nature of the second Person of the Trinity has ALWAYS been omnipotent, omniscient, and omnipresent.

You are saying the HUMAN nature of the second Person of the Trinity "veiled" his glory.

But are you saying that the DIVINE nature of the second Person of the Trinity "veiled" his glory?

In other words, in Heaven, did the second Person of the Trinity ever "surrender" or "veil" glory?

I am not exactly sure what you are saying.
The divine and human nature was in the person of Jesus. The human nature veiled(at times) the divine nature. The divine nature was still omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. If Jesus did not have these attributes, than He cannot be God. The Father, Son and Spirit all share in the divine nature. You know I wont use the term "person" but yes, while Jesus was on Earth, He was fully God. In John 2:11, for example, Jesus revealed His glory.
 
The divine and human nature was in the person of Jesus. The human nature veiled(at times) the divine nature. The divine nature was still omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent. If Jesus did not have these attributes, than He cannot be God. The Father, Son and Spirit all share in the divine nature. You know I wont use the term "person" but yes, while Jesus was on Earth, He was fully God. In John 2:11, for example, Jesus revealed His glory.

So I think you are agreeing with the standard Trinitarian teaching that ...

The Son of MAN veiled or surrendered his DIVINE glory.

But the Son of GOD never veiled or surrendered his DIVINE glory.

In other words, in HEAVEN, the Word NEVER veiled or surrendered his glory.

Correct?
 
So I think you are agreeing with the standard Trinitarian teaching that ...

The Son of MAN veiled or surrendered his DIVINE glory.

But the Son of GOD never veiled or surrendered his DIVINE glory.

In other words, in HEAVEN, the Word NEVER veiled or surrendered his glory.

Correct?
Sounds about right, using "veiled".
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Professing TRINITARIANS on this forum often make NON-TRINITARIAN statements. For example...





If the DIVINE Son ever lost his DIVINE glory, he would no longer be DIVINE!

That is quite true but they try not to think about it.

If he was not omniscient he would not be divine either since in their own doctrine one must have the attribute of omniscience to have a divine nature. But Jesus did not know they day nor hour and said ONLY the Father knows.

They have quite a mess on their hands.

That is why TRINITARIAN Catholic Catechism 469 says...

"What he was, he remained and what he was not, he assumed"


P.S.

Here is a concise statement of what I believe...
The spirit Yahweh is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

And here is a more detailed overview...
(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)
For this creation, Yahweh God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Son of God) with a glorious human body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God. But whereas Yahweh created a human spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

Stephen

Active member
I wouldn't use the word "surrendered". I believe "veiled" is much more appropriate. That is what I believe Philippians 2:6-8 is speaking about.

So the entire line of thought that claims Jesus had to have his glory returned to him is null and void since Jesus merely veiled his glory, correct?
 

Stephen

Active member
Are you referring to John 17:5?

I'm not. I'm referring to the idea that Christ had glory in eternity past, gave it up for 33 years, and then had it returned to him.

However a trinitarian would likely reach to John 17:5 to support the idea so it would be sufficient to the conversation.
 
I'm not. I'm referring to the idea that Christ had glory in eternity past, gave it up for 33 years, and then had it returned to him.

However a trinitarian would likely reach to John 17:5 to support the idea so it would be sufficient to the conversation.
I don't believe He gave it up for 33 years. I never mentioned "glory returned". I believe His glory was "veiled" and He chose to reveal it at times.
 
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