If The Reformation Never Happened . . .

RayneBeau

Well-known member
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
 

rossh

Well-known member
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
well they own our homes and use our children for sex and then burn everyone to death just for fun and to keep other inline. They actually BELIEVED THAT IF, A HOT IRON WAS PUT ON YOUR HAND and THAT YOU SCREAMED IN PAIN, THAT WAS SURE PROFF OF YOUR HERESEY .
 

Maxtar

Active member
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
Millions of souls would have been saved, but instead were led down a rathole to hell by the lies of the various new Christian sects that were formed by the so-called reformers.
 
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1Thess521

Well-known member
Millions of souls would have been saved, but instead were led down a rathole to hell by the lies of the various new Christian sects that were formed by the so-called reformers.
Faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?​
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?​
Very simple. No tricks.​
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.​
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."​
end quote
 

mica

Well-known member
RayneBeau said:
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
Millions of souls would have been saved, but instead were led down a rathole to hell by the lies of the various new Christian sects that were formed by the so-called reformers.
Why are you concerned about that? your own RCC doesn't teach what it is needed to be saved. No one is being saved by its teachings. tho, many are saved in spite of its lack of teaching God's word. They then leave the RCC and find a church that does teach His word, His gospel.

The RCC is no different than what you accuse those 'new sects' of being and doing.


When will you desire to believe in and follow Him more than you desire to believe in and follow the RCC (men)?
 

rossh

Well-known member
Faithful, knowledgeable, Church-loving, Catholic Author Peter Kreeft
quote
"How do I resolve the Reformation?​
Is it faith alone that justifies, or is it faith and works?​
Very simple. No tricks.​
On this issue I believe Luther was simply right; and this issue is absolutely crucial.​
As a Catholic I feel guilt for the tragedy of Christian disunity because the church in the fifteenth and sixteenth centuries was failing to preach the gospel.
Whatever theological mistakes Luther made, whatever indispensable truths about the Church he denied, here is an indispensable truth he affirmed — indispensable to union between all sinners and God and union between God’s separated Catholic and Protestant children."​
end quote
Unless I am convicted by Scripture and plain reason-I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other-my conscience is captive to the Word of God. I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I cannot do otherwise. God help me. Amen.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
When I was in college, I was in a debate about the Reformation.

Since our professor liked for us to argue the other side, based on things I had said in the class, he knew I was a Christian and so he had me argue for Catholicism.

Literally, the only point I could find in favor of the Catholic Church was that Catholicism offered women who were widows or single a way to live without having to be beggars or whores (no offense, Vibise).

To know what the Catholic Church would have done, all you have to do is look at what the Catholic Church did.

The Reformation occurred because the Catholic Church became increasingly heretical and corrupt until it could no longer be recognized as Christian, and various groups within called for its return and adherence to scripture.

Did the Catholic Church ever do this? No, it only got worse over time, until it became the wicked and diabolical cult it is today.
 

balshan

Well-known member
When I was in college, I was in a debate about the Reformation.

Since our professor liked for us to argue the other side, based on things I had said in the class, he knew I was a Christian and so he had me argue for Catholicism.

Literally, the only point I could find in favor of the Catholic Church was that Catholicism offered women who were widows or single a way to live without having to be beggars or whores (no offense, Vibise).

To know what the Catholic Church would have done, all you have to do is look at what the Catholic Church did.

The Reformation occurred because the Catholic Church became increasingly heretical and corrupt until it could no longer be recognized as Christian, and various groups within called for its return and adherence to scripture.

Did the Catholic Church ever do this? No, it only got worse over time, until it became the wicked and diabolical cult it is today.
It is so hard to have to argue the other side in debates but it can make you open your eyes. Though I have never found a good reason to hand a person. Hated that side of the debate.
 

romishpopishorganist

Well-known member
If the Reformation had never happened, would the Roman Catholic Church have "cleaned up it's act," of it's own initiative, or continued to get away with the disturbing picture of it's own moral decline, filth and mass corruption that is all so very prevalent even to this day?
Uh--yeah, it would have.

You think old Marty Luther and pals were the only people in the entire 2021 year history of the Catholic Church to demand reform or attempt reform? You think old Mary Luther and champs have the copyright on reform?
 

balshan

Well-known member
Uh--yeah, it would have.

You think old Marty Luther and pals were the only people in the entire 2021 year history of the Catholic Church to demand reform or attempt reform? You think old Mary Luther and champs have the copyright on reform?
Just shows the RCC prefers to live in sin and not change. It does not want to be apostolic at all.
 

Nondenom40

Super Member
Uh--yeah, it would have.

You think old Marty Luther and pals were the only people in the entire 2021 year history of the Catholic Church to demand reform or attempt reform? You think old Mary Luther and champs have the copyright on reform?
Reform to what exactly? Maybe curb its bloodlust and immorality but what in terms of religion or faith? Its never had the true gospel. So to 'reform' it'd have to completely erase everything from a theological standpoint and embrace biblical christianity. No popes, no sacerdotal priesthood, no penance, purgatory, marian dogmas no bread becoming god. But it would never do that. Hence it will never reform.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
Uh--yeah, it would have.

You think old Marty Luther and pals were the only people in the entire 2021 year history of the Catholic Church to demand reform or attempt reform? You think old Mary Luther and champs have the copyright on reform?
"Mary" Luther? 🤣 (I know, it's a typo. But it is hilarious..)

No, there was quite a history of people wanting to reform the RCC. The problem is how the RCC dealt with them...

from "Proto-Protestants" in Wikipedia:
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.

Jan Hus and the Hussites
He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.

John Wycliffe and the Lollards
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings, effectively excommunicating him retroactively. [rr- as well as burning his bones posthumously.]

——————————————————
Not to mention the Counter-Reformation. Which was not reforming, but solidifying Rome's attitude against reform.

So you are saying that "If the Reformation had never happened, the Roman Catholic Church would have 'cleaned up it's act' of it's own initiative"?

I still got that second bridge in NYC for sale, and it's even closer to St. Pat's than the first!
 

mica

Well-known member
"Mary" Luther? 🤣 (I know, it's a typo. But it is hilarious..)

No, there was quite a history of people wanting to reform the RCC. The problem is how the RCC dealt with them...

from "Proto-Protestants" in Wikipedia:
Peter Waldo and the Waldensians
By 1215, the Waldensians were declared heretical and subject to persecution.

Jan Hus and the Hussites
He was burned at the stake as a heretic in 1415. After his execution, a revolt erupted. Hussites defeated five continuous crusades proclaimed against them by the Pope.

John Wycliffe and the Lollards
The Council of Constance declared Wycliffe a heretic on 4 May 1415, and banned his writings, effectively excommunicating him retroactively. [rr- as well as burning his bones posthumously.]

——————————————————
Not to mention the Counter-Reformation. Which was not reforming, but solidifying Rome's attitude against reform.

So you are saying that "If the Reformation had never happened, the Roman Catholic Church would have 'cleaned up it's act' of it's own initiative"?

I still got that second bridge in NYC for sale, and it's even closer to St. Pat's than the first!
let me know if he bites on the bridge. I'll offer him an acre of my ocean front property in AZ.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
Uh--yeah, it would have.

You think old Marty Luther and pals were the only people in the entire 2021 year history of the Catholic Church to demand reform or attempt reform? You think old Mary Luther and champs have the copyright on reform?
Martin Luther, however was GOD'S MAN empowered by Him to actually EFFECT the change that was needed. The MIRACLE IS - that the "Holy Roman Catholic Church" couldn't MURDER him, and God protected him against them, while he performed his God Given Ministry to the Church.
Rome always had the habit of murdering by the box lot, anybody who disagreed with their satanic heresies.

Rome was given ANOTHER CHANCE in the '60s/'70s with the Charismatic Outpouring which many clergy in Rome were part of, and the Pope basically said yeah - go ahead and be part of it, BUT DON'T QUESTION any of the "Sacred teachings" of the Roman Catholic Church. Many Catholics came into a REAL Born Again relationship during the '60s-'70s, and many left the Catholic church for other truer Denominations.
 
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