If God as sanctioned ONLY belief as the means by which He is known to us, then suggesting that belief isn't from God or God doesn't believe His own truth and reality, then you must be depending on something else other than God's decreed method by which is truth and reality is known to us. Or in other words, you are a unbeliever as well.
If you disbelieve that God believes, then you are an atheist too.
- Thread starter Tercon
- Start date
Septextura
Well-known member
How is this an Arminianism vs Calvinism thing?
civic
Well-known member
Its not but it is her/his new age science of mind nonsense. maybe she/he is mormon where man is god and god is man.
his/her god must be an exalted man or woman lol
Notice Reader that they never refute anything, they just scoff at you. As if what I was saying wasn't true, you can be assured that they would say how and why it isn't true, but they never do that, they just scoff instead, because what I am saying is truth.
Septextura
Well-known member
It's against the forum rules.
If you want any credibility post scripture
civic
Well-known member
Its time to dismantle you with the TRUTH. Jesus is the way, the truth and the Life. Its time for a lesson from Scripture about who Jesus is tecron.
Does God have faith ?
Did Jesus have Faith ?
My top 10 reasons why Jesus had no need for faith !
1-Jesus used the word pistis or its derivatives a total of 41 times. Look it up in your concordance if you own one.
2- Every time Jesus used the word He was talking about someone else’s faith and not “ His Faith “
3- Jesus never used the faith in the first person referring to His “ Faith “.
4- No book in the entire NT ever refers to “ Jesus Faith “
5- Jesus is always the object of Faith never the recipient of faith
6- All the Apostles refers to their own faith in Christ .
7- Saving Faith is in Christ alone
8- God has no need for Faith
9- The Savior has no need for faith since He is not a sinner
10- Faith is needed for sinners alone and not the Holy Son of God who was / is Impeccable
Faith is the belief in things unseen. Remember the words of the Author of Hebrews: “Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen” (11:1).
Since Jesus is God He has perfect knowledge of all things as He claimed and the disciples affirmed on numerous occasions when they said we know that you are the Son of God for you know all things. Jesus knew what was in mans heart. There is no reason for Jesus to have faith since He knows all things and all things were made by Him and through Him and in Him all things exist. He knows the beginning from the end as the Creator. He shares all the same Divine attributes as the Father and the Holy Spirit. There is no faith in heaven there is only sight. The 2 natures in Christ solve the question of faith and Jesus as a man has all the attributes of God. So Jesus had no need for faith since He sees the things unseen by man. He always said and did what He heard and saw the Father doing 24/7 read about it in John 5.
hope this helps !!!
If you want to be taken seriously, then say how and why what I said is false or illogical. And if you can't, then at least think about what is being said to you and search the Scriptures for verses that contradict what I am saying.
civic
Well-known member
see my last post exposing your heretical and unbiblical views regarding faith.
No it didn't. And my supporting scripture are in the post below this one.
Thomas saith to him, `Sir, we have not known whither thou goest away, and how are we able to know the way?' Jesus saith to him, `I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one doth come unto the Father, if not through me; if ye had known me, my Father also ye would have known, and from this time ye have known Him, and have seen Him.' (John 14:5-7)
But do you really believe this? As if the only way and place that the truth and reality can be known and experienced is in and by a believing mind. And if the only way and place that has the capacity to be indwelt with and by the Holy Spirit, which is the Spirit of truth itself that leads us into “all truth” and the reality of God is a believing mind. Then the only way and place that the the truth, the Holy Spirit and the reality of God can be known to exist is in and by a believing mind. So, “the way” mentioned in the above verse must be denoting a Christ's believing mind. Therefore, if Christ has a believing mind, then so does God.
If Jesus is God and Christ has faith and believes in the reality of God, then that reality can be only known to exist in one way and place and that's in and by God's faith and believing mind. So yes, God does have faith and a believing mind.
Yes, Christ has faith and believes in the reality of God.
I believe the Christian faith denotes the believing the truth (Christ) and reality of God. And if the truth is Christ, and the Spirit of truth leads to all truth, then God must be reality.
Strong's Concordance
pisteuó: to believe, entrustOriginal Word: πιστεύω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: pisteuó
Phonetic Spelling: (pist-yoo'-o)
Definition: to believe, entrust
Usage: I believe, have faith in, trust in; pass: I am entrusted with.
Word-studies
4100 pisteúō (from 4102 /pístis, "faith," derived from 3982 /peíthō, "persuade, be persuaded") – believe (affirm, have confidence); used of persuading oneself (= human believing) and with the sacred significance of being persuaded by the Lord (=faith-believing). Only the context indicates whether 4100 /pisteúō ("believe") is self-serving (without sacred meaning), or the believing that leads to/proceeds from God's inbirthing of faith.
Strong's Concordance
pistis: faith, faithfulness
Original Word: πίστις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pistis
Phonetic Spelling: (pis'-tis)
Definition: faith, faithfulness
Usage: faith, belief, trust, confidence; fidelity, faithfulness.
HELPS Word-studies
4102 pístis (from 3982/peithô, "persuade, be persuaded") - properly, persuasion (be persuaded, come to trust); faith. Faith (4102/pistis) is always a gift from God, and never something that can be produced by people. In short, 4102/pistis ("faith") for the believer is "God's divine persuasion" – and therefore distinct from human belief (confidence), yet involving it. The Lord continuously births faith in the yielded believer so they can know what He prefers, i.e. the persuasion of His will (1 Jn 5:4).
[4102 (pistis) in secular antiquity referred to a guarantee (warranty). In Scripture, faith is God's warranty, certifying that the revelation He inbirthed will come to pass (His way).
Are you suggesting Jesus didn't believe for himself what he was instructing his OWN followers to believe silly?
Actually Jesus is the “first person” in the Christian faith and we are second. And it is from what he believed and his faith in the reality of God that the Christian faith comes silly.
It is quite obvious that you don't share in Christ's faith and way that he made the truth and reality of God known to us.
Actually the whole Bible refers to Christ and what he believes (his faith) and thus implies it is his faith and belief in the relationship he has with God the Father is what we are to follow.
One of Christ's purposes in being Messiah of believers, is that he shows us how we are to know and experience God the Father as he does. So we are to do exactly as he is doing. And Christ's way in which he used to know and experience God the Father was in and with his believing mind. The way in which “all truth” (the Holy Spirit) and the reality of God is meant to be known and experienced. And to suggest that the NT does not speak of or imply it is Christ's faith and belief where we get our faith and belief is a demonic LIE.
What a silly misguided illogical statement, as if we are always to see Christ as the object of our faith, then he too had to have that faith as well. If not, then where did our faith and belief come from if not from him and God silly?
Of course, as they speak for themselves. However, Christ in the first person speaks from his own faith and belief he has in the reality of God.
Where? Watch: “in Christ alone”. Did you see that?
Where do you think “Faith” and belief comes from, from you? So you think that YOU are the originator of “Faith” and belief? Pure religious hubris at its worst.
That's how and why “the Savior” “is not a sinner” silly, because he has “the way” aka the “Faith” and the truth in the reality of God.
If Faith is our belief in the truth and reality of God, then it is our belief in the truth that leads to the Holy Spirit and into “all truth” and the reality of God.
Faith is the truth we believe in the reality of God.
Yes and from Christ my faith did come. But if yours didn't come from Christ, then you are not a follower of Christ. So, again where did your faith or belief come from; if not from Christ and God?
And if Jesus “knows all things and all things were made by Him and through Him and in Him all things exist”, then Christ also knows that our faith and belief came from him as well you silly. As if faith and belief also exist, then they are things that exist in him as well silly.
Are you a materialist? As we don't know and experience the truth and reality in or with our physical senses, we know and experience the truth and reality with our faith and believing minds.
Actually if “Jesus” is God and having “all the attributes of God” then he must have a believing mind, because it is ONLY in and by a His believing mind that the truth, logic, morality, consciousness, existence and his own reality can be known to exist.
Yup, Christ gave to man what he received from his Father. And what he received from his Father was the truth and a believing mind in order to know and spread the reality of God and His Kingdom throughout the earth.
And my supporting scripture are in the post below this one.
My supporting scripture
There came a man -- having been sent from God -- whose name [is] John, this one came for testimony, that he might testify about the Light, that all might believe through him; that one was not the Light, but -- that he might testify about the Light. (John 1:6-8)
to his own things he came, and his own people did not receive him; but as many as did receive him to them he gave authority to become sons of God -- to those believing in his name, who -- not of blood nor of a will of flesh, nor of a will of man but -- of God were begotten. (John 1:11-13)
Nathanael answered and saith to him, `Rabbi, thou art the Son of God, thou art the king of Israel.' Jesus answered and said to him, `Because I said to thee, I saw thee under the fig-tree, thou dost believe; greater things than these thou shalt see;' and he saith to him, `Verily, verily, I say to you, henceforth ye shall see the heaven opened, and the messengers of God going up and coming down upon the Son of Man.' (John 1:49-5)
And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. (John 20:26-28)
Many indeed, therefore, other signs also did Jesus before his disciples, that are not written in this book; and these have been written that ye may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing ye may have life in his name.' (John 20:30-31)
and the Prince of the life ye did kill, whom God did raise out of the dead, of which we are witnesses; and on the faith of his name, this one whom ye see and have known, his name made strong, even the faith that [is] through him did give to him this perfect soundness before you all. (Acts 3:15-16)
And now apart from law hath the righteousness of God been manifested, testified to by the law and the prophets, and the righteousness of God [is] through the faith of Jesus Christ to all, and upon all those believing, -- for there is no difference, for all did sin, and are come short of the glory of God -- (Romans 3:21-25)
how then was it reckoned? he being in circumcision, or in uncircumcision? not in circumcision, but in uncircumcision; and a sign he did receive of circumcision, a seal of the righteousness of the faith in the uncircumcision, for his being father of all those believing through uncircumcision, for the righteousness also being reckoned to them, and father of circumcision to those not of circumcision only, but who also walk in the steps of the faith, that [is] in the uncircumcision of our father Abraham. (Romans 4:10-12)
we by nature Jews, and not sinners of the nations, having known also that a man is not declared righteous by works of law, if not through the faith of Jesus Christ, also we in Christ Jesus did believe, that we might be declared righteous by the faith of Christ, and not by works of law, wherefore declared righteous by works of law shall be no flesh.' And if, seeking to be declared righteous in Christ, we ourselves also were found sinners, [is] then Christ a ministrant of sin? let it not be! (Galatians 2:15-17)
the law, then, [is] against the promises of God? -- let it not be! for if a law was given that was able to make alive, truly by law there would have been the righteousness, but the Writing did shut up the whole under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ may be given to those believing.(Galatians 3:21-29)
And the Spirit expressly speaketh, that in latter times shall certain fall away from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons, in hypocrisy speaking lies, being seared in their own conscience, forbidding to marry -- to abstain from meats that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those believing and acknowledging the truth, because every creature of God [is] good, and nothing [is] to be rejected, with thanksgiving being received, for it is sanctified through the word of God and intercession. (1 Timothy 1;1-4)
for our being to the praise of His glory, [even] those who did first hope in the Christ, in whom ye also, having heard the word of the truth -- the good news of your salvation -- in whom also having believed, ye were sealed with the Holy Spirit of the promise, which is an earnest of our inheritance, to the redemption of the acquired possession, to the praise of His glory. (Ephesians 1:12-14)
who shall suffer justice -- destruction age-during -- from the face of the Lord, and from the glory of his strength, when He may come to be glorified in his saints, and to be wondered at in all those believing -- because our testimony was believed among you -- in that day; (2 Thessalonians 1:9-11)
that having been declared righteous by His grace, heirs we may become according to the hope of life age-during. Stedfast [is] the word; and concerning these things I counsel thee to affirm fully, that they may be thoughtful, to be leading in good works -- who have believed God; these are the good and profitable things to men, (Titus 3:7-8)
But say may some one, Thou hast faith, and I have works, shew me thy faith out of thy works, and I will shew thee out of my works my faith: thou -- thou dost believe that God is one; thou dost well, and the demons believe, and they shudder! And dost thou wish to know, O vain man, that the faith apart from the works is dead? (James 2:18-25)
foreknown, indeed, before the foundation of the world, and manifested in the last times because of you, who through him do believe in God, who did raise out of the dead, and glory to him did give, so that your faith and hope may be in God. Your souls having purified in the obedience of the truth through the Spirit to brotherly love unfeigned, out of a pure heart one another love ye earnestly, (1 Peter 1:20-22)
Last edited:
civic
Well-known member
new agers are delusional
I cannot help you if you are blind to the faith that believers found in the truth we found in Christ and to the reality of God. That's why I don't think you're a believer, as if you were you would say without a doubt that your faith and belief comes from the Lord. But you deny this, so you must be a unbeliever instead.
There are two kinds of unbelievers, There is the atheist (the mark of the forehead). And then there is the second kind, this unbeliever thinks they are believers, but they are silly enough to go along with atheists (the mark on there right hand) and engage in unbelief of just from whom and where the Christian faith and belief comes from. You are of the second variety. Or you are just an atheist pretending to be a Christian in order to frustrate believers in their faith.
"Arminianism vs Calvinism" is just identity politics amongst denominations.
civic
Well-known member
Septextura
Well-known member
Every time a heterodox joins Arminian vs Calvinist discussion, they never side with the Calvinists. I wonder why.
You can't help anyone
for You present no scripture
and and attempt to make the object of saving faith agreement with your belief regarding faith
Guess what you are neither God or inspired