"If you love me, keep my commandments"

S

Stella1000

Well-known member
When a Catholic reads these words from John 14:15, it stirs up the impulse to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments and a prayer for His help in doing better in future.

Do nonCC's take issue with this impulse?
 
Stella1000 said:
When a Catholic reads these words from John 14:15, it stirs up the impulse to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments and a prayer for His help in doing better in future.

Do nonCC's take issue with this impulse?
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One is not saved by impulse, let alone the commandments; do you know the purpose of the law?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
 
PeanutGallery said:
One is not saved by impulse, let alone the commandments; do you know the purpose of the law?

Gal 3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
Gal 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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Is the impulse a legitimate act of Gods grace in us or is it something else?
 
Stella1000 said:
When a Catholic reads these words from John 14:15, it stirs up the impulse to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments and a prayer for His help in doing better in future.

Do nonCC's take issue with this impulse?
Click to expand...
I don't know what a nonCC is, but I would take issue with this impulse because it spotlights that the problem isn't their inability to keep God's commandments, but the fact that they don't love God in the first place. They just ignore this glaring detail. It's absurd! It's the same issue one finds described in the gospel narratives especially with regards to the legalistic Pharisees. Paul even goes so far as to point out that the entire Old Testament is a testament to the futility of trying harder. It's pathetic!
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
Feelings don't save you. Works spurred by your impulse, after reading Scripture, don't save you. Only God's grace, His unmerited favor, in that even when we were sinners He still loved us and sent His only son to redeem us, that saves us.
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I don't believe you answered the question. Is the impulse a grace or is it something else in your opinion?
 
Stella1000 said:
If there's nothing I can do about it why should I be concerned?
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This is essentially the same rhetorical question Paul asks in Romans 9:19

"Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will?"

His answer is essentially, "Shut up!"

"20Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?

21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"

This is probably sufficient, but his next question is the one most people can never seem to answer:

"22What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:

23And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,"

In other words, what if God revealed to you that you were a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? Would you feel any sense of concern then? Would you feel any need to change the way you're living?
 
Stella1000 said:
When a Catholic reads these words from John 14:15, it stirs up the impulse to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments and a prayer for His help in doing better in future.

Do nonCC's take issue with this impulse?
Click to expand...
 
Not an easy question to answer because:
1. When a catholic,
It depends on if a catholic has been born again or not. And with rcc theology of being "in" Christ, or not being "in" Christ because of some sin a catholic has committed.
2. Is it grace causing the impulse...
It may be the Holy Spirit convicting the person of sin IF the person is not born again. Or it may be just the rcc heresy of a person losing their salvation, and that person is concerned with a sin all of a sudden causing a loss of their salvation and they are in panic mode.
3. Doing better in the future....
For God's glory or as a work for getting back "in" Christ? For sanctification in conforming to the image of Christ? Or as something to do to keep them from not being "in" Christ. With catholics never knowing the status of their souls they just never know really why they are doing works in the first place.
If a person has been born again by Grace through faith, which biblically, is the ONLY way a person CAN be born again then that person's salvation is set in God's word (in stone), that he or she will NEVER lose salvation. Jesus said that all given to Him from the Father, that He would lose NONE of them. All of a born again believer's sins, past, present, and future sins have been erased and have been nailed to the cross. A child of God will ALWAYS try to keep God's commandments, and will repent and ask forgiveness for sins. The problem with rcs is that the rcc keeps them from enjoying their freedom in Christ, and keeps them guilt ridden from never having the gospel preached or explained to them. So Catholics are left wringing their hands hoping just to make purgatory and hoping that they can there maybe clean up their souls and then somehow make it to heaven. When the gospel says, "There is NOW no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...Rom 8:1
But back to your question of whether grace is causing the impulse or not. If one is born of grace, he or she will always be conscience of sin and repent. Not just when they run into a verse of scripture for we are kept by God's power and not ours.....1 Peter 1:5

I have always loved Spurgeons quote:
"You will never have peace with God, as long as you have peace with sin"!
 
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shnarkle said:
In other words, what if God revealed to you that you were a vessel of wrath fitted to destruction? Would you feel any sense of concern then? Would you feel any need to change the way you're living?
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If I'm reading your interpretation correctly, you are making my point. Because we don't fully know the mysteries of Gods predestination, we can only do what He asks and obey His commandments.
 
bluedog1us said:
Not an easy question to answer because:
1. When a catholic,
It depends on if a catholic has been born again or not. And with rcc theology of being "in" Christ, or not being "in" Christ because of some sin a catholic has committed.
2. Is it grace causing the impulse...
It may be the Holy Spirit convicting the person of sin IF the person is not born again. Or it may be just the rcc heresy of a person losing their salvation, and that person is concerned with a sin all of a sudden causing a loss of their salvation and they are in panic mode.
3. Doing better in the future....
For God's glory or as a work for getting back "in" Christ? For sanctification in conforming to the image of Christ? Or as something to do to keep them from not being "in" Christ. With catholics never knowing the status of their souls they just never know really why they are doing works in the first place.
If a person has been born again by Grace through faith, which biblically, is the ONLY way a person CAN be born again then that person's salvation is set in God's word (in stone), that he or she will NEVER lose salvation. Jesus said that all given to Him from the Father, that He would lose NONE of them. All of a born again believer's sins, past, present, and future sins have been erased and have been nailed to the cross. A child of God will ALWAYS try to keep God's commandments, and will repent and ask forgiveness for sins. The problem with rcs is that the rcc keeps them from enjoying their freedom in Christ, and keeps them guilt ridden from never having the gospel preached or explained to them. So Catholics are left wringing their hands hoping just to make purgatory and hoping that they can there maybe clean up their souls and then somehow make it to heaven. When the gospel says, "There is NOW no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus...Rom 8:1
But back to your question of whether grace is causing the impulse or not. If one is born of grace, he or she will always be conscience of sin and repent. Not just when they run into a verse of scripture for we are kept by God's power and not ours.....1 Peter 1:5

I have always loved Spurgeons quote:
"You will never have peace with God, as long as you have peace with sin"!
Click to expand...
"With catholics never knowing the status of their souls they just never know really why they are doing works in the first place."

That assumption is an error of your perspective. The impulse comes from love. It's more like doing in the service of a relationship such as a marriage. It's the relationship in the here and now that is the focus of the doing.
 
Stella1000 said:
"With catholics never knowing the status of their souls they just never know really why they are doing works in the first place."

That assumption is an error of your perspective. The impulse comes from love. It's more like doing in the service of a relationship such as a marriage. It's the relationship in the here and now that is the focus of the doing.
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No. It is called presumption by your rcc which is forbidden. You know that. And it is a life in the here and now that saves you or condemns you. If you have received Christ by grace through faith, then and ONLY then will you have a saving relationship with Him. IF you have NOT received Him by the regeneration of the Holy Spirit, by grace through faith, you only kid yourself. Furthered in NO OTHER way to escape condemnation. No matter what you do.
 
Stella1000 said:
If I'm reading your interpretation correctly, you are making my point.
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You're mistaken. Here's your point: " to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments"
Stella1000 said:
Because we don't fully know the mysteries of Gods predestination,
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I addressed what you posted. You're ignoring my post altogether.
Stella1000 said:
we can only do what He asks and obey His commandments.
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Not according to what you posted. Here it is again: " try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments"

In case you're having trouble following; to say you can only do what He asks and obey His commandments is the OPPOSITE of "failures in keeping His commandments".

I have yet to encounter a single Catholic who would dare to address my point. There is no mystery to God's predestination when he reveals it to you. What would you do if that happened? It's right in line with Paul's arguments in Romans 8 and 9.
 
shnarkle said:
You're mistaken. Here's your point: " to try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments"

I addressed what you posted. You're ignoring my post altogether.

Not according to what you posted. Here it is again: " try harder, to examine our conscience for failures in keeping His commandments"

In case you're having trouble following; to say you can only do what He asks and obey His commandments is the OPPOSITE of "failures in keeping His commandments".

I have yet to encounter a single Catholic who would dare to address my point. There is no mystery to God's predestination when he reveals it to you. What would you do if that happened? It's right in line with Paul's arguments in Romans 8 and 9.
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Walk me through the experience of someone 'born again' when they face temptation to sin. Is it meant to be different to a non 'born again' who simply desires to please God?
 
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