I'm decreed to be born a slave of sin, oh boy, I have an excuse!

T

TomFL

Guest
Under Biblical truth (aka Calvinism) every sin you've committed and will commit was allowed and known by God, and sometimes He prevents some from committing sin. Thus, yes, He determined it to be so, after all He is God.
God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, (Acts 15:18, 1 Sam. 23:11–12, Matt. 11:21, 23) yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

What do you think Sketo is arguing for in his thread

To allow something before the foundation of the world one must foresee it as future

Yet the Westminster confession states he did not decreed anything because he saw it as future

So before the foundation of the world it was ordained you commit the sins you commit

If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
Institutes of the Christian Religion. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

“God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child…
https://www.desiringgod.org/message...ds-gracious-hand-in-the-hurts-others-do-to-us see below

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events.
than God’s hand.
b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", in Suffering and the Sovereignty of God, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,
Quote may be found

Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in his published work; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: “It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God…..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: “For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].
Calvinism and the problem of evil pg 204.205

John Piper is quoted as saying

The opposite of this definition would be that God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices however many or diverse other intervening causes are.
Beginners guide to free will
Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in a prepublished article; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].

BTW what would God be allowing or permitting but that which man wants to and does according to his own free will

Permission presumes a free will (limited of course- no one believes in an absolute free will) but a free will never the less

Also BTW permission affirms that God can know what free creatures will do something Sketo denies
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
As to the OP, it isn't really an excuse as you're claiming, it is that you are blaming God for your sin, so it is Romans 9:20-21 on display.

This is asking how it relates to civic's claim that demonization somehow gives people an excuse.

Civic is claiming if at any point a person's free will is no longer involved, then they have the "perfect excuse."

Do you agree or disagree with civic.
 

civic

Well-known member
As to the OP, it isn't really an excuse as you're claiming, it is that you are blaming God for your sin, so it is Romans 9:20-21 on display.
amen some just refuse to take responsibility for their own sins and either say:

the devil made me do it

or

God made me this way.

Scripture calls them LIARS/DECEIVED as per 1 John 1:8-10 and that the truth is not in them.
 

civic

Well-known member
This is asking how it relates to civic's claim that demonization somehow gives people an excuse.

Civic is claiming if at any point a person's free will is no longer involved, then they have the "perfect excuse."

Do you agree or disagree with civic.
You are making things up about me so quote me.

I said the opposite everyone sins willfully and they are carried away by their OWN lusts/desires.

You are starting to sound like sith who doesn't quote people and makes things up that are not in the bible or said by others. Read the devil made me do it flip wilson thread.

I said the following:

James 1:14
but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

And like the video Eve tries to make the same excuse with the blame game as did adam.

Genesis 3
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Matthew 16:15-17
 

civic

Well-known member
This is asking how it relates to civic's claim that demonization somehow gives people an excuse.

Civic is claiming if at any point a person's free will is no longer involved, then they have the "perfect excuse."

Do you agree or disagree with civic.
here is what I said :


so you are bearing false witness against me, you owe me an apology.
 
T

TomFL

Guest
Under Biblical truth (aka Calvinism) every sin you've committed and will commit was allowed and known by God, and sometimes He prevents some from committing sin. Thus, yes, He determined it to be so, after all He is God.
God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, (Acts 15:18, 1 Sam. 23:11–12, Matt. 11:21, 23) yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

What do you think Sketo is arguing for in his thread

To allow something before the foundation of the world one must foresee it as future

Yet the Westminster confession states he did not decreed anything because he saw it as future

So before the foundation of the world it was ordained you commit the sins you commit

If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
Institutes of the Christian Religion. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

“God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child…
https://www.desiringgod.org/message...ds-gracious-hand-in-the-hurts-others-do-to-us see below

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events.
than God’s hand.
b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", in Suffering and the Sovereignty of God, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,
Quote may be found

Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in his published work; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: “It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God…..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: “For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].
Calvinism and the problem of evil pg 204.205

John Piper is quoted as saying

The opposite of this definition would be that God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices however many or diverse other intervening causes are.
Beginners guide to free will
Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in a prepublished article; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].

BTW what would God be allowing or permitting but that which man wants to and does according to his own free will

Permission presumes a free will (limited of course- no one believes in an absolute free will) but a free will never the less

Also BTW permission affirms that God can know what free creatures will do something Sketo denies
 

civic

Well-known member
This is asking how it relates to civic's claim that demonization somehow gives people an excuse.

Civic is claiming if at any point a person's free will is no longer involved, then they have the "perfect excuse."

Do you agree or disagree with civic.
I have posted this verse to you how many times now ?

Try reading it very sloooooooooly as my answer to you has not changed one bit.

James 1:13
Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am being tempted by God,” for God cannot be tempted with evil, and he himself tempts no one.

hope this helps !!!


but somehow I doubt it will..................................

next...............................................................................
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
Under Biblical truth (aka Calvinism) every sin you've committed and will commit was allowed and known by God, and sometimes He prevents some from committing sin. Thus, yes, He determined it to be so, after all He is God.
Are you saying God allows and prevents his own determinations of every sin one has been decreed to commit?
 

CrowCross

Super Member
You are making things up about me so quote me.

I said the opposite everyone sins willfully and they are carried away by their OWN lusts/desires.

You are starting to sound like sith who doesn't quote people and makes things up that are not in the bible or said by others. Read the devil made me do it flip wilson thread.

I said the following:

James 1:14
but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.

And like the video Eve tries to make the same excuse with the blame game as did adam.

Genesis 3
When the woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eyes, and that it was desirable for obtaining wisdom, she took the fruit and ate it. She also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate it.

And he said, “Who told you that you were naked? Have you eaten from the tree that I commanded you not to eat from?”

12 The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”

13 Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”

The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”

Matthew 16:15-17
Many forget that we live in 3 dimensions + time....and God doesn't.

God is outside of time...in fact created time...and knows the beginning from the end.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Are you saying God allows and prevents his own determinations of every sin one has been decreed to commit?
I always love the fact that the responses will almost always contain "Are you saying...?" in an accusatory tone since we believe all that the Scriptures declare about God actually being God. This truth strikes fear and exposes disdain in the hearts of many.
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
here is what I said :


so you are bearing false witness against me, you owe me an apology.
I’m having a difficult time wondering why people want to make things up about them. That is terrible. This is very disappointing to see from some people on this forum
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
here is what I said :


so you are bearing false witness against me, you owe me an apology.
Yeah, well, I wouldn't hold my breath, especially at your age! ;) :p

(forgive me, lol!)
 

civic

Well-known member
I’m having a difficult time wondering why people want to make things up about them. That is terrible. This is very disappointing to see from some people on this forum
yes this poster has started misrepresenting me like sith does all the time. Its bearing false witness. And I have requested from both posters to use the "quote" feature when making accusations. As you can see in my responses I not only use old posts with links form what certain posters have gone on record saying but I also use the current posts against them since its their own words.

hope this helps !!!
 
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