I'm decreed to be born a slave of sin, oh boy, I have an excuse!

civic

Well-known member
I always love the fact that the responses will almost always contain "Are you saying...?" in an accusatory tone since we believe all that the Scriptures declare about God actually being God. This truth strikes fear and exposes disdain in the hearts of many.
Yes that is exactly my perception as well its in an accusatory tone. Since it happens in almost every post its rather easy to read between the lines with the questioning/ interrogating method of approach. It reminds me of the way the pharisees always tried trapping Jesus with their questions done by human reasoning void of the spirit.
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Yes that is exactly my perception as well its in an accusatory tone. Since it happens in almost every post its rather easy to read between the lines with the questioning/ interrogating method of approach. It reminds me of the way the pharisees always tried trapping Jesus with their questions done by human reasoning void of the spirit.
Yep. "I'll get you, you evil little Calvinist, for believing what the word plainly says!!!!!!" 😈 ;)
 
T

TomFL

Guest
in a clarification tone.
And signature
1Pet 1:18,19,23 ... redeemed ...with the precious blood of Christ, ... Being born again, ... by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

Yes we are born again through the word of God

It cannot be while in unbelief of the gospel, as unbelief in the gospel does not profit

The gospel needs to be mixed with faith for the new birth (and life)

Hebrews 4:2 (KJV)
2 For unto us was the gospel preached, as well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being mixed with faith in them that heard it.

therefore faith precedes regeneration
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions, (Acts 15:18, 1 Sam. 23:11–12, Matt. 11:21, 23) yet hath He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions

The Westminster Confession of Faith (Oak Harbor, WA: Logos Research Systems, Inc., 1996).

What do you think Sketo is arguing for in his thread

To allow something before the foundation of the world one must foresee it as future

Yet the Westminster confession states he did not decreed anything because he saw it as future

So before the foundation of the world it was ordained you commit the sins you commit

If God merely foresaw human events, and did not also arrange and dispose of them at his pleasure, there might be room for agitating the question, how far his foreknowledge amounts to necessity; but since he foresees the things which are to happen, simply because he has decreed that they are so to happen, it is vain to debate about prescience, while it is clear that all events take place by his sovereign appointment.
Institutes of the Christian Religion. (John Calvin, Institutes of Christian Religion, Book 3, Chapter 23, Paragraph 6)

“God . . . brings about all things in accordance with his will. In other words, it isn’t just that God manages to turn the evil aspects of our world to good for those who love him; it is rather that he himself brings about these evil aspects for his glory (see Ex. 9:13-16; John 9:3) and his people’s good (see Heb. 12:3-11; James 1:2-4). This includes—as incredible and as unacceptable as it may currently seem—God’s having even brought about the Nazis’ brutality at Birkenau and Auschwitz as well as the terrible killings of Dennis Rader and even the sexual abuse of a young child…
https://www.desiringgod.org/message...ds-gracious-hand-in-the-hurts-others-do-to-us see below

Nothing that exists or occurs falls outside God’s ordaining will. Nothing, including no evil person or thing or event or deed. God’s foreordination is the ultimate reason why everything comes about, including the existence of all evil persons and things and the occurrence of any evil acts or events.
than God’s hand.
b Talbot, "All the Good That Is Ours in Christ", in Suffering and the Sovereignty of God, ed. John Piper and Justin Taylor,
Quote may be found

Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in his published work; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: “It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God…..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: “For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].
Calvinism and the problem of evil pg 204.205

John Piper is quoted as saying

The opposite of this definition would be that God is the only being who is ultimately self-determining, and is himself ultimately the disposer of all things, including all choices however many or diverse other intervening causes are.
Beginners guide to free will
Calvinist; Dr. James N. Anderson, of the Reformed Theological Seminary, Charlotte NC, in a prepublished article; Calvinism and the first sin, states the underlying proposition: It should be conceded at the outset, and without embarrassment, that Calvinism is indeed committed to divine determinism: the view that everything is ultimately determined by God..take it for granted as something on which the vast majority of Calvinists uphold, and may be expressed as the following: For every event [E], God decided that [E] should happen and that decision alone was the ultimate sufficient cause of [E].

BTW what would God be allowing or permitting but that which man wants to and does according to his own free will

Permission presumes a free will (limited of course- no one believes in an absolute free will) but a free will never the less

Also BTW permission affirms that God can know what free creatures will do something Sketo denies
The above is at least the second time you gave the exact response to my same post.

Let me save you some time and show you the typical scenario between you and me, you and others:

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

(After we stop arguing with you, the below ensues)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Repeated to ad nauseam. :)
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
The above is at least the second time you gave the exact response to my same post.

Let me save you some time and show you the typical scenario between you and me, you and others:

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

(After we stop arguing with you, the below ensues)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Repeated to ad nauseam. :)

Seems like his post has references, quotes and arguments.

Where's yours?
 
T

TomFL

Guest
The above is at least the second time you gave the exact response to my same post.

Let me save you some time and show you the typical scenario between you and me, you and others:

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Me/Others: Uh-huh
You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

(After we stop arguing with you, the below ensues)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

You: Nuh-uh (cut and paste)

Repeated to ad nauseam. :)

Did you address any of it ?

I see lots of references

and no replies

Did you reply somewhere I did not see ?
 

eternomade

Well-known member
So why does this logic not work, but somehow Civic's does.
I dont know of all the context behind this but this OP reminds me a little of the charge against Paul in Romans 3:8

"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just."
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
I dont know of all the context behind this but this OP reminds me a little of the charge against Paul in Romans 3:8

"And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just."

Without the context behind it, the point will not be understood.

Civic believes sin caused by demonic coercion of some kind gives people a perfect excuse to sin.
 

civic

Well-known member
Without the context behind it, the point will not be understood.

Civic believes sin caused by demonic coercion of some kind gives people a perfect excuse to sin.
Another false accusation. @eternomade it is just the opposite I was mocking people who say the devil made me sin or that God made me sin etc.....

We sin because we are carried away by our own sinful lusts and God does not temp us to sin as per James 1:13.

Dizerner is bearing false witness which is why he is refusing to quote me saying such antibiblical nonsense.

@eternomade read my thread here and my first 2 post for the truth about what I believe.

 

civic

Well-known member
I have asked @Dizerner the following questions and quoted these passages about believers @eternomade

1 John 5:18
We know that anyone born of God does not keep on sinning; the One who was born of God protects him, and the evil one cannot touch him.

1 John 2:13
I am writing to you, fathers, because you know Him who is from the beginning. I am writing to you, young men, because you have overcome the evil one. I have written to you, children, because you know the Father.


Where are believers forced by demons ?

Chapter and verse please I'm not interested in your unbiblical philosophical arguments.

Stick with the OP instead of your usual diversions.

Does the devil make you sin ? yes or no

summary: @Dizerner never answered my questions and just continues to make false accusations against me. Is that what Christians do ? Is that the fruit of the spirit or the deeds of the flesh at work?

Galatians 5:
The acts of the flesh are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20 idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21 and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24 Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. 25 Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

1 Cor 13
Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

1 Tim 6
These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind,

James 3
Who is wise and understanding among you? Let them show it by their good life, by deeds done in the humility that comes from wisdom. 14 But if you harbor bitter envy and selfish ambition in your hearts, do not boast about it or deny the truth. 15 Such “wisdom” does not come down from heaven but is earthly, unspiritual, demonic. 16 For where you have envy and selfish ambition, there you find disorder and every evil practice.

17 But the wisdom that comes from heaven is first of all pure; then peace-loving, considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit, impartial and sincere. 18 Peacemakers who sow in peace reap a harvest of righteousness.

hope this helps !!!
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
Another false accusation. @eternomade it is just the opposite I was mocking people who say the devil made me sin or that God made me sin etc.....

We sin because we are carried away by our own sinful lusts and God does not temp us to sin as per James 1:13.

Dizerner is bearing false witness which is why he is refusing to quote me saying such antibiblical nonsense.

@eternomade read my thread here and my first 2 post for the truth about what I believe.

I noticed he made things up about you that you never said . I thought you made yourself clear no one can blame anyone but themselves for their sins in that thread . It is very unchristian behavior to say those things about you that are not true. The person owes you a public apology. It is sad to see people behave in that manner it is unacceptable. Your employer would fire any person who behaved like that and Christians have a higher standard than the world.
 

civic

Well-known member
I noticed he made things up about you that you never said . I thought you made yourself clear no one can blame anyone but themselves for their sins in that thread . It is very unchristian behavior to say those things about you that are not true. The person owes you a public apology. It is sad to see people behave in that manner it is unacceptable. Your employer would fire any person who behaved like that and Christians have a higher standard than the world.
Thank you and I couldn't of said it better myself. Thanks Johnnbgood for sharing your thoughts and observations from this thread and the one I started on the topic of taking personal responsibility for our sins and not the blame game some people here are playing. And quite frankly its PATHETIC and a DISGRACE .

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I noticed he made things up about you that you never said . I thought you made yourself clear no one can blame anyone but themselves for their sins in that thread . It is very unchristian behavior to say those things about you that are not true. The person owes you a public apology. It is sad to see people behave in that manner it is unacceptable. Your employer would fire any person who behaved like that and Christians have a higher standard than the world.
I often say that if CARM Forums forced people to respond, or else face a moderated consequence; so many people would be officially Outed. We know HE is Outed, but he doesn't have an Authority to officially Out him. If CARM allowed someone to call Fouls in an Official capacity, it would get interesting real quick...
 

civic

Well-known member
Without the context behind it, the point will not be understood.

Civic believes sin caused by demonic coercion of some kind gives people a perfect excuse to sin.
So you are breaking the rules number one by not quoting me. I never said that in fact I said just the opposite in the thread with Flip Wilson video. And if you were able to verify I actually said what you are falsely accusing me of ( you can't I never said it) then the biblical method is to confront me and if I refuse to listen and repent then the 2/3 witnesses rule would be applied below so that its not based upon hearsay but facts.

Deuteronomy 19:15
“A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.

Matthew 18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

John 5
If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

2 Corinthians 13:1
This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”

1 Timothy 5:19
Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses.

hope this helps !!!
 

Johnnybgood

Well-known member
So you are breaking the rules number one by not quoting me. I never said that in fact I said just the opposite in the thread with Flip Wilson video. And if you were able to verify I actually said what you are falsely accusing me of ( you can't I never said it) then the biblical method is to confront me and if I refuse to listen and repent then the 2/3 witnesses rule would be applied below so that its not based upon hearsay but facts.

Deuteronomy 19:15
“A single witness shall not suffice against a person for any crime or for any wrong in connection with any offense that he has committed. Only on the evidence of two witnesses or of three witnesses shall a charge be established.

Matthew 18:16
But if he will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.'

John 5
If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true. 32 There is another who testifies in my favor, and I know that his testimony about me is true.

33 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved. 35 John was a lamp that burned and gave light, and you chose for a time to enjoy his light.

36 “I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the works that the Father has given me to finish—the very works that I am doing—testify that the Father has sent me. 37 And the Father who sent me has himself testified concerning me. You have never heard his voice nor seen his form, 38 nor does his word dwell in you, for you do not believe the one he sent. 39 You study the Scriptures diligently because you think that in them you have eternal life. These are the very Scriptures that testify about me, 40 yet you refuse to come to me to have life.

41 “I do not accept glory from human beings, 42 but I know you. I know that you do not have the love of God in your hearts. 43 I have come in my Father’s name, and you do not accept me; but if someone else comes in his own name, you will accept him. 44 How can you believe since you accept glory from one another but do not seek the glory that comes from the only God?

45 “But do not think I will accuse you before the Father. Your accuser is Moses, on whom your hopes are set. 46 If you believed Moses, you would believe me, for he wrote about me. 47 But since you do not believe what he wrote, how are you going to believe what I say?”

2 Corinthians 13:1
This will be my third visit to you. “Every matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.”

1 Timothy 5:19
Do not listen to an accusation against an elder unless it is confirmed by two or three witnesses.

hope this helps !!!
Great scriptures and the principles believers are commanded to follow when bringing a charge against another believer. Thank you civic for standing firm on the truth in God’s word. I can see truth is important to you in many areas of doctrine and practice. I see you passion in your posts for truth. Living in our culture is a daily battle for truth .
 
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