I strongly doubt that the anti calvinists will show up....
I wonder what excuses they will list....
I wonder what excuses they will list....
Why would any need an excuse ?I strongly doubt that the anti calvinists will show up....
I wonder what excuses they will list....
Why would any need an excuse ?
Are there not enough posts challenging the Calvinist position here ?
You would have to open your eyes and be open to evidence before you could see anythingIn all my years here, I've never seen even ONE post here that significantly "challenges" the Calvinist position.
(Since you asked.... )
While on hiatus I meandered through the pages of this section of the forum.I strongly doubt that the anti calvinists will show up....
I wonder what excuses they will list....
Foreknowledge requires thought. Thought, on God's part, requires action.
So, verb....
For whom he foreknew, them he also predestined.
Predestining requires action. God knows my response to the gospel from the foundation of the world.
I however have no idea how I'll respond until the instant I do so.
He invites me- whosoever shall call on his name shall be saved...
The calvinist sees it from the other side of the same door that the arminian is seeing the whosoever shall call on his name is seeing it.
That'd be disappointing.IIRC I heard Matt Slick say on his LIVE program that he is no longer "allowed" on the forums. Sounded like some kind of agreement for whatever reason. Of course I could be wrong.
You can always call his program and ask him. 877-227-2276.That'd be disappointing.
Since he's the one who initiated the question and I was in another part of the forum talking with atheists at the time and just learned about this last week, I was hoping he'd be willing and available to actually work through this.
I wasn't really interested in having this discussion with anyone else.
I know for a fact that I'd never last a moment on a live broadcast.You can always call his program and ask him. 877-227-2276.
The thing is, he's going to hold to the same things we've been telling you which you fight against. But do call. Please?
He's not waiting to pounce on you, he's fair and gentle. But he may be able to show you a more accurate way, as Aquila and Prisca did with Apollos; Acts 18:26, that is, if you'd finally listen and consider that your beliefs are somewhat askew.I know for a fact that I'd never last a moment on a live broadcast.
Brother, with all due respect, you're projecting. You do exactly what you accuse others of doing. Why is it that you're the victim, and you're the one right, but others "only want to be right?"I began talking with people on the internet 20-22 years ago because I'd engaged in face to face encounters with unbelievers for a couple decades.
It was pretty clear that they weren't actually interested in knowing the truth. They only wanted to be right.
That's pretty much the subject.I simply wanted to talk about Jesus and what he did for us in dying to save us from our sin and give us eternal life.
Apples and oranges, there is a difference between fellowship and evangelism.As previously stated, I have generally avoided engaging in discussions with believers, because Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not the righteous.
Stay curious because you do hold to some erroneous views that others have attempted to correct.Every so often I get curious and decide to engage in discussion about biblical faith with other believers.
My friend, you are projecting. You seem to talk of everyone else, as if only they have issues, but you're clean. Keep an open mind, and actually listen. People here have given you sound doctrine.I learned a long time ago that they too already know everything and have no interest whatsoever in actually conversing with anyone outside their inner circle of friends.
Yes, you get angry when you are challenged. "Vacays" happen when we do this. Have you ever noticed the anti-Cals who accuse us of ad hom and all the other things of being ugly &c are the ones who like to go on "cruises" more than us?This has always been disappointing to me.
I don't think anyone wants to convert you to their way of thinking, but to sound doctrine, the doctrine you fight against.I simply want to enjoy conversing with saints in Christ and they want me to be converted to their way of thinking.
It was pretty clear that they weren't actually interested in knowing the truth. They only wanted to be right.
I simply wanted to talk about Jesus and what he did for us in dying to save us from our sin and give us eternal life.
As previously stated, I have generally avoided engaging in discussions with believers, because Jesus came to call sinners to repentance, not the righteous.
I learned a long time ago that they too already know everything and have no interest whatsoever in actually conversing with anyone outside their inner circle of friends.
This has always been disappointing to me.
I simply want to enjoy conversing with saints in Christ and they want me to be converted to their way of thinking.
So far you guys haven't been able to show me where my "views are askew."He's not waiting to pounce on you, he's fair and gentle. But he may be able to show you a more accurate way, as Aquila and Prisca did with Apollos; Acts 18:26, that is, if you'd finally listen and consider that your beliefs are somewhat askew.
Ok.I used to hold to your beliefs, by the way.
Really?Brother, with all due respect, you're projecting.
And how do I know that it's not you who are actually doing what you accuse me of?You do exactly what you accuse others of doing.
I don't actually think I'm a victim.Why is it that you're the victim, and you're the one right, but others "only want to be right?"
Wow.To be blunt, you really do not listen, and seem to only want to quarrel.
Like your initial response to me here. Did you act then how others act to you in your experience?
That's pretty much the subject.
Apples and oranges, there is a difference between fellowship and evangelism.
Stay curious because you do hold to some erroneous views that others have attempted to correct.
My friend, you are projecting. You seem to talk of everyone else, as if only they have issues, but you're clean. Keep an open mind, and actually listen. People here have given you sound doctrine.
Yes, you get angry when you are challenged. "Vacays" happen when we do this. Have you ever noticed the anti-Cals who accuse us of ad hom and all the other things of being ugly &c are the ones who like to go on "cruises" more than us?
I don't think anyone wants to convert you to their way of thinking, but to sound doctrine, the doctrine you fight against.
I encourage you to call Matt Slick.
At one point someone else (not me) "successfully" made an argument that changed his mind about calvinism.
Sadly, he stopped following Jesus altogether and became an atheist.
So, telling me that you are a former follower of Jesus, but abandoned him to follow John Calvin.....
you're not actually engendering much confidence in your thinking processes.
Mat 15:7-9 WEB 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, 8 ‘These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.’”
Yep.So far you guys haven't been able to show me where my "views are askew."
The only thing you've done is accuse me.
Say that I'm not a real follower of Jesus...
So, if you actually think that I'm going to go on a live broadcast and be trounced on like you're doing here, I see no reason to.
Ok.
Several years ago I ran across a young man who showed up on the atheist forum.
Once I got through the initial back and forth I asked him about his former faith.
He described how he used to be a dyed-in-the-wool calvinist, and would argue assiduously with non-calvinists.
At one point someone else (not me) "successfully" made an argument that changed his mind about calvinism.
Sadly, he stopped following Jesus altogether and became an atheist.
I tried to engage him further, but he refused, and stuck to his guns.
So, telling me that you are a former follower of Jesus, but abandoned him to follow John Calvin..... you're not actually engendering much confidence in your thinking processes.
You would however remind me of what Jesus quoted Isaiah about...
Mat 15:7-9 WEB 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, saying, 8 ‘These people draw near to me with their mouth, and honor me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9 And they worship me in vain, teaching as doctrine rules made by men.’”
So.... please don't use the statement you made to try to cajole me....
It's too reminiscent of what Paul said about the judaizers in Galatians, 4:17.
Really?
Because of your errant views and thinking you are always right and the problem is always with others. If the problem has always been with others, it means the common denominator is YOU. You're the problem.And how do I know that it's not actually you who are projecting?
I don't have any need for you to do anything. I'm just pointing out some factors that happen to be forthcoming.And how do I know that it's not you who are actually doing what you accuse me of?
I don't actually think I'm a victim.
I do however find it curious that you need me to view myself as a victim.
OK.You're definitely not helping yourself or the apparent need to convince me that calvinism is the truth.
Wow.
Well, I have an incredibly awesome idea...
Let's just stop right here.
That never happened, and I don't feel that way. But you are projecting again, by your own attitude and admittance about dealing with others, it is YOU who left others in a quarrel, and have presented them as inferior. That's exactly what you've done here, Steve. Maybe you can tell the "Bereans" how you schooled me. LOL!!!!!!!! One is already here with his other sock on.You can walk away and feel proud that you won a quarrel with someone who you believe is inferior, because they don't see where ALL of your ideas are solidly grounded in scripture.
Uh huh.Happy new year.
Several years ago I ran across a young man who showed up on the atheist forum.
Once I got through the initial back and forth I asked him about his former faith.
He described how he used to be a dyed-in-the-wool calvinist, and would argue assiduously with non-calvinists.
At one point someone else (not me) "successfully" made an argument that changed his mind about calvinism.
Sadly, he stopped following Jesus altogether and became an atheist.
I tried to engage him further, but he refused, and stuck to his guns.
Pretty sad when one tries to extend an olive branch and open up a conversation only to have the anti-Calvinist pull out the name-calling card.It's unfortunate you apparently can't remember this allegedly "killer" argument.
Not surprising.
When you destroy a man's faith in the Bible (which teaches Calvinism), why would you expect him to continue believing in Jesus?
1) The Bible teaches Calvinism.
2) Your atheist friend convinces him that Calvinism is false.
3) That must mean the Bible is false.
4) Therefore, there is no reason to believe in Jesus.
How could you not have expected that?
P4T doesn't "follow John Calvin".
He follows Jesus.
More insults?
So now you're abusing the Bible to insult others?
So far you guys haven't been able to show me where my "views are askew."
So how exactly do you want us to interact with you and yours?I wasn't aware that we were supposed to.
What, was their a sale on "shoulder chips" at the store?
All you guys ever do is go around begging for us to ARGUE with you, just so you can say we're wrong.
Guess what? Nobody CARES what you believe.
Guess what? Nobodys' FORCING you to become a Calvinist.
Sheesh.
So how exactly do you want us to interact with you and yours?
Do you want to just dispense Calvinist information?
Do you want us to marvel at how brilliant your doctrines are?
Do you want us to marvel at how informed and astute you are?
Just what exactly do you expect from our interactions with you?
Note: If you do respond, take into consideration that Calvinists have stigmatized us with numerous derogatory labels such as: "kidnapper', "imposter", "slick", "someone of your ilk", "pit of hell", "stupid", "dumbest", "demonic", "worthless garbage", etc.., not to mention their go to name-calling cards such as Universalists, Pelagians, and Humanists.