Imperfect Active Indicative

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
We were eating dinner when my sister arrived

John 1:1 does not have a subordinate clause like your English example. Your adverbial subordinate clause with "when" temporally modifies the verb "were".

John 8:44 ἐκεῖνος ἀνθρωποκτόνος ἦν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς - he was a murderer from the beginning
 
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froggy

Active member
John 1:1 does not have a subordinate clause like your English example. Your adverbial subordinate clause with "when" temporally modifies the verb "were".

John 8:44 ἐκεῖνος ἀνθρωποκτόνος ἦν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς - he was a murderer from the beginning
John 1:1 A doesn't need a subordinate clause. It is a completed idea. In the beginning was the Word. The Word already existed before creation.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
John 1:1 A doesn't need a subordinate clause. It is a completed idea. In the beginning was the Word. The Word already existed before creation.
Was the Devil there too?

John 8:44 ἐκεῖνος ἀνθρωποκτόνος ἦν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς - he was a murderer from the beginning
 

froggy

Active member
When was Lucifer created?
There is no specific date. Colossians 1:16 does shed some light on the subject. For in Him (Christ) all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
There is no specific date. Colossians 1:16 does shed some light on the subject. For in Him (Christ) all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
I can help you with that. If the Devil was sinning from the beginning and Lucifer was created before he became the Devil then Lucifer was created before the beginning.

This is fun.
 

rossh

Well-known member
Was the Devil there too?

John 8:44 ἐκεῖνος ἀνθρωποκτόνος ἦν ἀπ’ ἀρχῆς - he was a murderer from the beginning
Yes of course " he " was ( do angels have a male/female tag ? ) No, I think not.. He is named Lucifer and he is/was Gods most beautiful angel...
Isa 46:“Remember things that happened at the beginning, long ago — that I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me.
10 At the beginning I announce the end, proclaim in advance things not yet done; and I say that my plan will hold, I will do everything I please to do. 11 I call a bird of prey from the east, the man I intended, from a distant country. I have spoken and will bring it about; I have made a plan, and I will fulfill it. 12 Listen to me, you stubborn people, so far from righteousness: 13 I am bringing my justice nearer, it is not far away; my salvation will not be delayed, I will place my salvation in Tziyon for Isra’el my glory.
 

rossh

Well-known member
There is no specific date. Colossians 1:16 does shed some light on the subject. For in Him (Christ) all things were created, things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities. All things were created through Him and for Him.
around 64 AD,,,, or before as Paul died around 64 AD and was born around 6 AD
 

The Real John Milton

Well-known member
I can help you with that. If the Devil was sinning from the beginning and Lucifer was created before he became the Devil then Lucifer was created before the beginning.

This is fun.

Acts 11:15, even has ἐν with dative ἀρχῇ

ἐν δὲ τῷ ἄρξασθαί με λαλεῖν ἐπέπεσεν τὸ Πνεῦμα τὸ Ἅγιον ἐπ’ αὐτοὺς ὥσπερ καὶ ἐφ’ ἡμᾶς ἐν ἀρχῇ.

Didn’t know that the Holy Spirit came upon men before time began. 😀
 

froggy

Active member
I can help you with that. If the Devil was sinning from the beginning and Lucifer was created before he became the Devil then Lucifer was created before the beginning.

This is fun.
You do realize that your statement is a contradiction. If satan/lucifer was created then he had a beginning and that clearly implies time.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
You do realize that your statement is a contradiction. If satan/lucifer was created then he had a beginning and that clearly implies time.
I did not make a statement. I asked a question based on your use of the beginning. You assume that the beginning in John 1:1 and Ge 1:1 are the same.

But look at the beginning at Proverbs 8:22.

Pr 8:22 “The Lord created me at the beginning of His way, (NASB)

Is this the same beginning as in Genesis 1:1? That starts with the heavens and earth but that was not created yet:

Pr 8:25 Before the mountains were settled,
Before the hills, I was born;
26 While He had not yet made the earth and the fields,
Nor the first dust of the world.
27 When He established the heavens, I was there;

So the beginning is not always the same time frame. Note that someone/something was created at the beginning and then later what was created at Ge 1:1 was made.

Also at Job 38:6-7 the angels saw the earth created.
 
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