Impossible to Perfectly Keep the Law? No such excuse!

preacher4truth

Well-known member
The question is not blame but causation. We do not sin solely because we want to. There are other forces that are brought to bear on us. We are indeed culpable, but the reason we sin is because of sin living in us, separating us from God, our only source of power over sin. Is is ultimately because of Satan's deception that we sinned, and we wouldn't have done it without him. He is the Deceiver, and is culpable for his role.
I see, but that is nowhere in the text of Romans 7 does it imply that we can blame it on the Devil, or, that the Devil made us do it.

Scripture says we sin when we are drawn away by our own lust, James 1:14, it doesn't say blame it on the Devil, or imply that it is his fault.
We are culpable because we willingly believe his deception rather than God.
"We?" So you do believe in original sin?
Being deceived is not to be forced against our will; but being deceived is the direct cause of our wilful choice.
Yet that apparently contradicts your former argument.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
James 1:14, it doesn't say blame it on the Devil, or imply that it is his fault.

This describes one kind of sin.

Nowhere in the passage does it say "This is only way to sin" or "This is the only kind of sin."

And the issue of blame is irrelevant to law, if you break the law you break the law, whether there is volition or not. Surely even Calvinists believe the lost are "slaves of sin," but not voluntary slaves or people could simply stop sinning without Jesus. Do the Calvinists then insist that the lost can "blame it on the devil" because they teach that the lost are "slaves to sin"? Following your own logic, they would have to say the lost can blame it on the devil by resaon of being slaves. But no, they teach even if you are slaves you are still culpable for the sin. Demonic possession works the exact same way.

Romans 6 teaches that even Christians can present themselves as "slaves to sin" once again.

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin (Rom 6:13 NKJ)

And Paul goes on to say:

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey (Rom 6:16 NKJ)

Demonic bondage is a real thing that unbelief and religious spirits hate to admit, and no one should be put under condemnation for standing against a vice they are believing to overcome. I've heard stories of people standing against compulsions to various strange addictions for many years and every time they fail here comes condemnation to beat them up telling them they could do better if they just tried harder. Pure legalism and religious demons.
 

civic

Well-known member
This describes one kind of sin.

Nowhere in the passage does it say "This is only way to sin" or "This is the only kind of sin."

And the issue of blame is irrelevant to law, if you break the law you break the law, whether there is volition or not. Surely even Calvinists believe the lost are "slaves of sin," but not voluntary slaves or people could simply stop sinning without Jesus. Do the Calvinists then insist that the lost can "blame it on the devil" because they teach that the lost are "slaves to sin"? Following your own logic, they would have to say the lost can blame it on the devil by resaon of being slaves. But no, they teach even if you are slaves you are still culpable for the sin. Demonic possession works the exact same way.

Romans 6 teaches that even Christians can present themselves as "slaves to sin" once again.

And do not present your members as instruments of unrighteousness to sin (Rom 6:13 NKJ)

And Paul goes on to say:

Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one's slaves whom you obey (Rom 6:16 NKJ)

Demonic bondage is a real thing that unbelief and religious spirits hate to admit, and no one should be put under condemnation for standing against a vice they are believing to overcome. I've heard stories of people standing against compulsions to various strange addictions for many years and every time they fail here comes condemnation to beat them up telling them they could do better if they just tried harder. Pure legalism and religious demons.
Nothing but a circular argument and demonic bondage?

Where was a demon ever cast out of a believer ? Chapter and verse ?

Where does the Bible say a believer can be in bondage to demons ? Chapter and verse

Greater is He who is in you than he sho is in the world . A house divided against itself cannot stand.

1 John 4
This is the spirit of the antichrist,which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

4 You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. 5 They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. 6 We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit[a] of truth(N) and the spirit of falsehood.
 

TibiasDad

Well-known member
I see, but that is nowhere in the text of Romans 7 does it imply that we can blame it on the Devil, or, that the Devil made us do it.
Paul says “it is no longer I who does it” but rather it is “sin living in me” that makes me incapable of doing what I want to do, and makes me do what I do not want to do, that which I hate! So if it is not Paul, it is some
Scripture says we sin when we are drawn away by our own lust, James 1:14, it doesn't say blame it on the Devil, or imply that it is his fault.
Indeed, because our inordinate desires, which are caused by sin, which was the result of Satan’s deception cause us want to protect our own interests in an inappropriate manner! Like I said, it’s not that we are not responsible for our actions and choices, but we did

"We?" So you do believe in original sin?
I have never denied original sin! The human race as a whole was alienated from God by Adam’s actions! We are born out of fellowship with God, and thus separated from the only source of life!

Yet that apparently contradicts your former argument.
I don’t think so! You would have to delineate why this is true.

Doug
 

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Paul says “it is no longer I who does it” but rather it is “sin living in me” that makes me incapable of doing what I want to do, and makes me do what I do not want to do, that which I hate! So if it is not Paul, it is some

Indeed, because our inordinate desires, which are caused by sin, which was the result of Satan’s deception cause us want to protect our own interests in an inappropriate manner! Like I said, it’s not that we are not responsible for our actions and choices, but we did


I have never denied original sin! The human race as a whole was alienated from God by Adam’s actions! We are born out of fellowship with God, and thus separated from the only source of life!


I don’t think so! You would have to delineate why this is true.

Doug
Fair enough brother. Hope your day is blessed!
 

Carbon

Well-known member
The devil never made anyone do anything they didn’t already want to do. Now, who was it that stirred up the Assyrians to attack Israel in Isaiah 10? 🤔
I have noticed that too much credit is always given to the devil. It’s as if God and the devil are equal forces always fighting for us.
Quite simply, the devil is God’s pawn, he can only do what God allows him to do, nothing more.

The devil knows his role, and if people read and understood the scriptures they would know that also.

And God does not send the devil to make people sin.
People that think he does, don’t know what their talking about.
 

civic

Well-known member
I have noticed that too much credit is always given to the devil. It’s as if God and the devil are equal forces always fighting for us.
Quite simply, the devil is God’s pawn, he can only do what God allows him to do, nothing more.

The devil knows his role, and if people read and understood the scriptures they would know that also.

And God does not send the devil to make people sin.
People that think he does, don’t know what their talking about.
Yes its what Flip Wilson made a good living off of the the old " the devil made me do it" routine. That was some good old comedy back in the day.
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
I have noticed that too much credit is always given to the devil. It’s as if God and the devil are equal forces always fighting for us.
Quite simply, the devil is God’s pawn, he can only do what God allows him to do, nothing more.

The devil knows his role, and if people read and understood the scriptures they would know that also.

And God does not send the devil to make people sin.
People that think he does, don’t know what their talking about.

The Devil had power over death until Calvary.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


The Devil is the father of lies.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
 

civic

Well-known member
The Devil had power over death until Calvary.

Heb 2:14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;


The Devil is the father of lies.

Joh 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Agreed but is anyone disputing that fact. If so could you link me to it. Thanks !
 

praise_yeshua

Well-known member
Agreed but is anyone disputing that fact. If so could you link me to it. Thanks !

I didn't think you were. Cause and effect do have to include the origins of sin. I agree that we are willing participants but some of that maybe due the father of lies. Again, I believe that we are willing participant. Just mentioning the origins.
 

Ken Hamrick

Active member
1 Tim. 2:14
And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.

Adam sinned without being deceived. And Eve was only deceived about the results and not about the fact that it was sin.
 
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