In Calvinism where is the love

My favorite non-Calvinist quote!

"The glory of the justice that condemns the sinner is not as great as the glory of the justice of the grace of God that saves the lost ... He is not so short of glory that He must needs seek it in hell, death, and damnation. A high Calvinist once said, 'the groans of the damned in hell shall be the great bass of the universal anthem of praise to God'. Such horror of hell can surely never sound other than horrible in the ear of Divine love. ...

"In this matter of Divine Sovereignty in election we are not dealing with personified and inflated will, abstract justice, power without love, and glory without moral content, but with the personal God whose grace is glory and whose glory is grace to sinful persons needing redemption. Instead of disjointed attributes, arbitrary powers, and death-dealing decrees, let us have the living, loving personal God revealed so perfectly in Jesus Christ!"

J.B. Champion -- in his book Sovereignty and Grace.
 
Theophilus said:
My favorite non-Calvinist quote!

"The glory of the justice that condemns the sinner is not as great as the glory of the justice of the grace of God that saves the lost ... He is not so short of glory that He must needs seek it in hell, death, and damnation. A high Calvinist once said, 'the groans of the damned in hell shall be the great bass of the universal anthem of praise to God'. Such horror of hell can surely never sound other than horrible in the ear of Divine love. ...

"In this matter of Divine Sovereignty in election we are not dealing with personified and inflated will, abstract justice, power without love, and glory without moral content, but with the personal God whose grace is glory and whose glory is grace to sinful persons needing redemption. Instead of disjointed attributes, arbitrary powers, and death-dealing decrees, let us have the living, loving personal God revealed so perfectly in Jesus Christ!"

J.B. Champion -- in his book Sovereignty and Grace.
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Amen
 
SovereignGrace said:
Wow! So how can we know what is truth and what is not in the bible? You have the lowest view of scripture I've ever seen on any forum. :(
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please carefully read this op title:

- Universalistic Misinterpretations of Bible passages

You are running i know it and others know it as well we have come to this point multiple times but you never ever deal with scriptures use of the word especially 1 Timothy 4:10 (ESV) — 10 For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of...
forums.carm.org
 
Theophilus said:
My favorite non-Calvinist quote!

"The glory of the justice that condemns the sinner is not as great as the glory of the justice of the grace of God that saves the lost ... He is not so short of glory that He must needs seek it in hell, death, and damnation. A high Calvinist once said, 'the groans of the damned in hell shall be the great bass of the universal anthem of praise to God'. Such horror of hell can surely never sound other than horrible in the ear of Divine love. ...

"In this matter of Divine Sovereignty in election we are not dealing with personified and inflated will, abstract justice, power without love, and glory without moral content, but with the personal God whose grace is glory and whose glory is grace to sinful persons needing redemption. Instead of disjointed attributes, arbitrary powers, and death-dealing decrees, let us have the living, loving personal God revealed so perfectly in Jesus Christ!"

J.B. Champion -- in his book Sovereignty and Grace.
Click to expand...
Here is my favorite:

"God loved the elect before they believed, yea, before they were born. {Eph.1:4} If we are chosen to life according to the good pleasure of his will, then we are not chosen to life according to our believing and repenting, &c. But the first is true also. Nor are men chosen to life because God foresaw they would believe. God is eternal. The will of God is God. He was never without his will. What he now wills he ever did; therefore, there could not be any cause to go before it to cause it to be, or so to be. Man cannot elect without an act and time, but it’s not so with an Infinite Being. Election is his eternal and immutable decree from eternity. {Rom.9:11, Eph.1:4, II Tim.1:9} It is the more wonderful and glorious that it is without beginning; for His love is everlasting; {Jer.31:3;} therefore, without beginning as God is infinite without beginning, so is his love, for God is love. {I John 4:16, John 17:23} Therefore God loves his as much before they believe as after. The Scripture does not say God began to love when we began to believe, nor that he loves any the better because they believe. It is a certain truth that God’s love to us is not as ours is to him."
Samuel Richardson {Divine Consolations Part 3, 1649}
 
eternomade said:
Here is my favorite:

"God loved the elect before they believed, yea, before they were born. {Eph.1:4} If we are chosen to life according to the good pleasure of his will, then we are not chosen to life according to our believing and repenting, &c. But the first is true also. Nor are men chosen to life because God foresaw they would believe. God is eternal. The will of God is God. He was never without his will. What he now wills he ever did; therefore, there could not be any cause to go before it to cause it to be, or so to be. Man cannot elect without an act and time, but it’s not so with an Infinite Being. Election is his eternal and immutable decree from eternity. {Rom.9:11, Eph.1:4, II Tim.1:9} It is the more wonderful and glorious that it is without beginning; for His love is everlasting; {Jer.31:3;} therefore, without beginning as God is infinite without beginning, so is his love, for God is love. {I John 4:16, John 17:23} Therefore God loves his as much before they believe as after. The Scripture does not say God began to love when we began to believe, nor that he loves any the better because they believe. It is a certain truth that God’s love to us is not as ours is to him."
Samuel Richardson {Divine Consolations Part 3, 1649}
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Unfortunately it is not biblical

there are no unconditionally elect in Eph 1

the passage concerns those who are faithful in Christ

Ephesians 1:1–3 (ESV) — 1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus: 2 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places,
 
Theophilus said:
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

A Calvinist once said to a preacher, “I would like to explain why I believe as I do. Suppose a man went to an orphanage. He had predetermined by his grace that he would adopt a certain boy and certain girl and take them into his family. Can anyone reasonably accuse the man of being unjust or unfair because he chose those two and left the others?”

The preacher replied to the Calvinist, “Certainly not! As you have explained the situation, I would find no problem of any kind with the man’s purpose and his choice.” Then the preacher said, “But suppose the man went to the orphanage and sent word to all the children saying, ‘WHOSOEVER WILL may come!’ and then refused to take any but the two he had originally intended to take. With that I have a problem which Calvinism cannot resolve.” (Kent Kelly quoting Harold McKay, Inside the Tulip, Calvary Press)
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Everyone who is willing may come. The problem is that no-one is willing, unless God gives him a new, soft heart/spirit, to replace the old, hostile-to-God, light-hating heart/spirit that does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

See, the resolution was easy!
 
David1701 said:
Everyone who is willing may come. The problem is that no-one is willing, unless God gives him a new, soft heart/spirit, to replace the old, hostile-to-God, light-hating heart/spirit that does not receive the things of the Spirit of God.

See, the resolution was easy!
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but wrong

faith precedes regeneration

one must believe before being made alive
 
preacher4truth said:
You didn't rebut anything, you twisted the text into humanism, because that is what you preach.

Run along now. thanks.
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Then you as a Calvinist who believes like Zwingli the Calvinist are a pelagian since Luther called Zwingli a pelagian and your beliefs line up with his.
 
Theophilus said:
Then you as a Calvinist who believes like Zwingli the Calvinist are a pelagian since Luther called Zwingli a pelagian and your beliefs line up with his.
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You do realize that the above is nothing but childish name-calling, right?
The other poster addressed what you actually believe and assert. Your post doesn't address what we believe, but is worthless guilt by association fallacy. Do better.
 
Theo1689 said:
You do realize that the above is nothing but childish name-calling, right?
The other poster addressed what you actually believe and assert. Your post doesn't address what we believe, but is worthless guilt by association fallacy. Do better.
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Did you get saved watching Jerry Falwell and his moral majority?
 
Theophilus said:
My favorite non-Calvinist quote!

"The glory of the justice that condemns the sinner is not as great as the glory of the justice of the grace of God that saves the lost ...
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1) Where do you find that anywhere in the Bible?

2) Where does the Bible teach that grace is an act of "justice"?
 
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