In Calvinism where is the love

American Gothic said:
it is impossible for all to Believe - because of our nature
no one would seek God, not even one
that is why, for His glory, God Elected/chose some for a Believer's relationship

Salvation isn't fair, it's gracious
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No one seeks in and of themselves. But by natural revelation they have an option to seek. The wise men sought God and were not yet saved. The Gentiles sought God.

Acts 13:42 (KJV) And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles *besought* that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath.
 
Theophilus said:
Luke 6:35
But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for he is kind to the ungrateful and the evil

Unfortunately, Calvinists sometimes seem to have a blind spot for the love of God. Consider this question from The Shorter Catechism, which is an abbreviated version of The Westminster Confession of Faith, a classic Calvinist statement of faith. The Catechism asks this most fundamental theological question: “What is God?”

Here is the answer that is given: “God is a Spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness, and truth.”

Do you notice anything missing from this definition? Where is the love? The definition mentions God’s power, his wisdom, and his justice, along with other attributes, but amazingly enough it leaves out perhaps the most beautiful definition of God in the entire Bible: “God is love”. 1 John 4:8,16


Calvinist theologian Arthur W. Pink: “When we say that God is sovereign in the exercise of His love, we mean that He loves whom he chooses. God does not love everybody . . . .”

How does that work? The bad news is not really well. Is it not the very heart of the gospel that God loves everyone? Is that not the good news that we joyfully share with all persons? “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whosoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life”. John 3:16


In the Institutes of the Christian Religion by John Calvin there is not one time in this book does Calvin ever quote “God is love.” Hard to believe that in is massive book that is 1,521 pages long and that discusses thousands of biblical texts and discusses God’s nature extensively, Calvin never one time cited 1 John 4:8 or 1 John 4:16. Not even once! This is a stunning omission.

I'm still looking for the love in Calvinism.
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Biblical Calvinism finds the love Of God In Christ. Not outside of Him.

rom5:5 And hope maketh not ashamed;
because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
 
Theophilus said:
Cite your source and quote the institutes with a link where Calvin quotes 1 John 4:8 or 4:16 saying God is love.

Until you provide the evidence we will not move past this point or you concede it’s not in the institutes . If you concede we can move onto another point.
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This is another move of the goalposts and an attempt at double standards because no evidence for the well-poisoning claims made about Calvin's Institutes was provided in this op. There is no source or quotes for Calvin in this op.

The fact is I did provide the source already: Book 2, Chapter 5, Article 17 of "The Institutes of the Christian Religion" states, "He (Paul) indeed says nothing about more than he says to Titus, when he writes, 'After that the kindness and love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy he saved us." Have you got a computer with access to the internet? Then look up Book 2, Chapter 5, Article 17 and do what should have been done before this op was posted. Try HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, HERE, or HERE. God's love toward man appeared. That's "man," not "men." Mankind. Humanity. Not just Christians. Book, chapter, and article were provided. Look it up. Ctrl-F and type in the word "love" on ANY page and see how many times Calvin wrote about God's love in his Institutes. Where is the love? IT'S ALL OVER THE BOOK!!!

Calvin does not have to quote 1 John 4:8 or 4:16 to say God is love, that God loves all, or that the gospel is for all. He can come right out and say, "the Heavenly Father loves the human race," God has a common love with which He regards those He has created, and "peculiar love which, beginning with the Son, flows from him to all the creatures," and prove the claims of this op incorrect. Four different places, once in his Institutes and thrice in his commentary on John's gospel, Calvin explicitly stated God loves all. Where is love in Calvinism? IT'S ALL OVER THE PLACE!!!

This op is wrong.
Theophilus said:
Until you provide the evidence.......
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The proof, not just mere evidence, was provided in my op-reply before it was requested. Links are now provided. Time for you to move past this point.
 
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Theophilus said:
Calvinism teaches it’s impossible for a non elect to be saved since God determined before creation to damn them eternally without ever having a choice or a chance to be saved.
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Nonsense. God did not damn anyone from eternity. Folks damned themselves. Salvation is the gift of God to the damned. Calvinism does not teach God damned anyone from eternity, nor that any were without choice. Where's your proof?

The WCF explicitly states what God ordained from eternity occurred without Him being the author of sin or doing violence to the will of the creature. In other words, the WCF, one of the most authoritative doctrinal statements in Calvinism, asserts and affirms human will and explicitly states God did it no violence (see Article 3.1)
 
Josheb said:
Nonsense. God did not damn anyone from eternity. Folks damned themselves. Salvation is the gift of God to the damned. Calvinism does not teach God damned anyone from eternity, nor that any were without choice. Where's your proof?

The WCF explicitly states what God ordained from eternity occurred without Him being the author of sin or doing violence to the will of the creature. In other words, the WCF, one of the most authoritative doctrinal statements in Calvinism, asserts and affirms human will and explicitly states God did it no violence (see Article 3.1)
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Obviously you do not understand Calvinism teaches divine meticulous determinism of all things apart from any foreknowledge of what man might do

and that is violence to the will he himself determined


GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.


Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith: Edinburgh Edition (Philadelphia: William S. Young, 1851), 26–27.
 
Josheb said:
Nonsense. God did not damn anyone from eternity. Folks damned themselves. Salvation is the gift of God to the damned. Calvinism does not teach God damned anyone from eternity, nor that any were without choice. Where's your proof?

The WCF explicitly states what God ordained from eternity occurred without Him being the author of sin or doing violence to the will of the creature. In other words, the WCF, one of the most authoritative doctrinal statements in Calvinism, asserts and affirms human will and explicitly states God did it no violence (see Article 3.1)
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Could you give a brief definition of Infra and Supralapsarianism, and tell us why you prefer one over the other?

Maybe start a Thread you can lead...
 
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fltom said:
Obviously you do not understand Calvinism teaches divine meticulous determinism of all things apart from any foreknowledge of what man might do

and that is violence to the will he himself determined


GOD from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,b nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures, nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.
II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions; yet hath he not decreed any thing because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.
III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels are predestinated unto everlasting life, and others foreordained to everlasting death.


Westminster Assembly, The Westminster Confession of Faith: Edinburgh Edition (Philadelphia: William S. Young, 1851), 26–27.
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Quit bloody shouting ?
 
When a person says "divine meticulous determination," a redundant phrase, one gets a sense of a loathing of both God and His ways in said statement.
 
I woke up to 15 active Threads and two new Threads. Nevertheless, I try to use only one or two Threads. Many Threads are like a crowded intersection in a big city, but just a few Threads are like the Table at a Country Store...

Divide and Conquer; a house divided cannot stand...

Tactics...
 
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