In Christ

TomFL

Well-known member
Union with Christ. According to the New Testament, the religious experience of the earliest Christians was derived from and dependent upon Christ. Christian experience is more than an imitation of the life and teaching of Jesus. It is the present experience of the risen Christ indwelling the believer’s heart by the Spirit. Both Johannine and Pauline literature refer to this reality by emphasizing the inclusive and corporate personality of Christ.

Usage. Paul more often than any other New Testament author combines the preposition “in” (en) with some designation for Christ. The phrase and its cognates occur some two hundred times in Pauline literature. The apostle uses the term in more than one sense, and scholars have attempted to interpret the concept in a variety of ways (e.g., mystical, existential, sacramental, local, eschatological, and ecclesiastical). In places, the words “in Christ” can be understood as just another way of designating a Christian (Eph. 1:1; Phil. 1:1; Col. 1:2; 1 Thess. 4:16). The idea of instrumentality or causality is an alternate usage of the phrase (Rom. 14:14; 2 Cor. 3:14; Gal. 2:17; Phil. 4:13). It is clear, however, that the words “in Christ” also have soteriological meaning for Paul (Rom. 8:1; 2 Cor. 5:19; Eph. 1:20). Being “in Christ” is presented as the only basis for justification and glorification (Col. 1:27). This is not a mysticism of absorption, the losing of human identity in the divine, but rather an intimate communion with God through Christ.

R. David Rightmire, “Union with Christ,” in Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, electronic ed., Baker reference library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996), 789.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
PT2

Incorporation and the Second Adam. “In Christ” denotes a profound personal identification with Christ that serves as the basis of salvation and new life. This is closely associated with the notion of sharing in Christ’s death and resurrection (Rom. 6:1–11; 8:17; Gal. 2:20; Col. 2:12; 3:1). Underlying these meanings is the concept of corporate personality. By faith believers are incorporated into the representative head of the new humanity, the Second Adam. For Paul, union with Christ results in the personal appropriation of the effects of Jesus’ life, death, resurrection, and glorification. By sharing in these events, the believer experiences them as living realities. In this way, Christ comes to live in and through a person.

R. David Rightmire, “Union with Christ,” in Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, electronic ed., Baker reference library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996), 789.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
R. David Rightmire, “Union with Christ,” in Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, electronic ed., Baker reference library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996), 789.

You're quoting from someone from the "Salvation Army"?
 

TomFL

Well-known member
You're quoting from someone from the "Salvation Army"?

From the Evangelical dictionary of Biblical theology

R. David Rightmire, “Union with Christ,” in Evangelical Dictionary of Biblical Theology, electronic ed., Baker reference library (Grand Rapids: Baker Book House, 1996), 789.

\R. David Rightmire(Ph.D., Marquette University) is Professor of Bible and Theology at Asbury College. He has published in several professional journals, including Christian Scholar's Review,Church History, Fides et Historia, and the Wesleyan Theological Journal.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Union with Christ began before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

Grace was given the Elect in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This proves a Union Existed between Christ Jesus/The Mediator and they to whom Grace was given to in Him !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Union with Christ began before the foundation of the World Eph 1:4

Grace was given the Elect in Christ before the world began 2 Tim 1:9

who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

This proves a Union Existed between Christ Jesus/The Mediator and they to whom Grace was given to in Him !
Sorry no one existed before the foundation of the earth

and men are in Christ in time as Paul shows

Rom. 16:7 —KJV
“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

Now

Eph. 1:4 —KJV
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

The us is the faithful in Christ

Paul's audience

Eph. 1:1 —ESV
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ¶ To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:”

They were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth but in time as Paul tells us

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

Men were sealed in Christ when they believe

2 Tim. 1:9 —KJV
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

That passage concerns Paul and Timothy
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry no one existed before the foundation of the earth

and men are in Christ in time as Paul shows

Rom. 16:7 —KJV
“Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.”

Now

Eph. 1:4 —KJV
“According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:”

The us is the faithful in Christ

Paul's audience

Eph. 1:1 —ESV
“Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, ¶ To the saints who are in Ephesus, and are faithful in Christ Jesus:”

They were not in Christ before the foundation of the earth but in time as Paul tells us

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

Men were sealed in Christ when they believe

2 Tim. 1:9 —KJV
“Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,”

That passage concerns Paul and Timothy
I know you started this thread to oppose my Gospel Preaching/Testimony. However Union with Christ began before the foundation of the World !
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I know you started this thread to oppose my Gospel Preaching/Testimony. However Union with Christ began before the foundation of the World !
Sorry you just ignore the evidence

Paul noted there were men in Christ before him

Eph 1:13 tells us men are sealed in Christ when they believe

BTW I did not start this op for you
 

PeanutGallery

Active member
I know you started this thread to oppose my Gospel Preaching/Testimony. However Union with Christ began before the foundation of the World !
Your gospel; not God's gospel which states that that men were without Christ before being in Christ.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Your gospel; not God's gospel which states that that men were without Christ before being in Christ.
Eph 2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
Eph 2:13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
You dont understand those verses. Men were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eh 1 4
4 according as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry you just ignore the evidence

Paul noted there were men in Christ before him

Eph 1:13 tells us men are sealed in Christ when they believe

BTW I did not start this op for you
There were people in Christ before Paul. Men are sealed after they believe. Paul wrote people were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1 4 which you ignore and deny and fabricate.
 

TomFL

Well-known member
There were people in Christ before Paul. Men are sealed after they believe. Paul wrote people were chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1 4 which you ignore and deny and fabricate.
The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
Denial of scripture. Men were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 4
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Denial of scripture. Men were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 4
Collectively the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless as was stated

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

not before they are born
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Collectively the faithful in Christ were chosen to be holy and blameless as was stated

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

not before they are born
Straw man. It's a collection of men and women chosen in Christ before the foundation. Also they weren't faithful before the foundation of the world since they had not yet been created and born
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Denial of scripture. Men were Chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world Ephesians 1 4
Sorry you are just mindlessly repeating yourself

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

That is how a provisionist would handle that passage

The Arminian would say they were chosen based on foreknowledge

and you have no way to refute that

as the verse says nothing at all about being unconditionally chosen

You are just reading your view into the passage for it does not teach unconditional particular election
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Sorry you are just mindlessly repeating yourself

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

That is how a provisionist would handle that passage

The Arminian would say they were chosen based on foreknowledge

and you have no way to refute that

as the verse says nothing at all about being unconditionally chosen

You are just reading your view into the passage for it does not teach unconditional particular election
I'm going to repeat truth always. Men were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
 

TomFL

Well-known member
I'm going to repeat truth always. Men were Chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world Eph 1 4
You have no truth to repeat

The verse does not reach unconditional election

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

That is how a provisionist would handle that passage

The Arminian would say they were chosen based on foreknowledge

and you have no way to refute that

as the verse says nothing at all about being unconditionally chosen

You are just reading your view into the passage for it does not teach unconditional particular election
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
You have no truth to repeat

The verse does not reach unconditional election

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

That is how a provisionist would handle that passage

The Arminian would say they were chosen based on foreknowledge

and you have no way to refute that

as the verse says nothing at all about being unconditionally chosen

You are just reading your view into the passage for it does not teach unconditional particular election
Eph 1:4 is truth. When were those Believers Paul was writing to in Eph 1 4 Chosen in Christ according to Eph 1 :4
 

brightfame52

Well-known member
Of course Eph 1:4 is true. Unconditional elewction to salvation however is not

You have no truth to repeat

The verse does not reach unconditional election

The faithful in Christ collectively. There was no one in Christ before the foundation of the world

God chose the faithful in Christ would be holy and blameless before him

Individual Men become in Christ when they believe

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”

That is how a provisionist would handle that passage

The Arminian would say they were chosen based on foreknowledge

and you have no way to refute that

as the verse says nothing at all about being unconditionally chosen

You are just reading your view into the passage for it does not teach unconditional particular election

and you deal with neither view
When were those believers Paul was writing to in Eph 1 4 and according to that verse, Chosen in Christ ?
 
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