In Christ

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TomFL said:
read the verse not your theology

Eph. 2:12 —ESV
“remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

separated from Christ is not in Christ
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I read that verse over a thousand times, the elect were separated from Christ. However those same people were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1 4. Now according to Eph 1:4 when were they in Eph 2 12 chosen in Christ ?
 
brightfame52 said:
I read that verse over a thousand times, the elect were separated from Christ. However those same people were Chosen in Christ before the foundation Eph 1 4. Now according to Eph 1:4 when were they in Eph 2 12 chosen in Christ ?
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Can't be in Christ if they were separated from Christ

Your understanding is faulty
 
brightfame52 said:
You put reason over revelation.

Now according to Eph 1:4 when were they in Eph 2 12 chosen in Christ ?
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Individuals were not chosen in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Eph. 2:12 —ESV
“remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

you need to stop fighting scripture
 
TomFL said:
Individuals were not chosen in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Eph. 2:12 —ESV
“remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

you need to stop fighting scripture
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They [Individuals] were chosen in Christ before the foundation, a bunch of individuals in fact. When were those in Eph 2 12 chosen in Christ according to Eph 1 4
 
brightfame52 said:
They [Individuals] were chosen in Christ before the foundation, a bunch of individuals in fact. When were those in Eph 2 12 chosen in Christ according to Eph 1 4
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Scripture has refuted your claim

Individuals were not chosen in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Eph. 2:12 —ESV
“remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
“In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

you need to stop fighting scripture
 
TomFL said:
Scripture has refuted your claim

Individuals were not chosen in Christ before the foundation of the earth
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Scripture refutes you:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.


... and constantly running away to v.13 is NEVER going to make v.4 disappear.

Sorry that you reject Scripture (1:4).

TomFL said:
you need to stop fighting scripture
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Take your own advice.
You need to STOP FIGHTING Eph. 1:4.
 
Theo1689 said:
Scripture refutes you:

Eph. 1:3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved.


... and constantly running away to v.13 is NEVER going to make v.4 disappear.

Sorry that you reject Scripture (1:4).



Take your own advice.
You need to STOP FIGHTING Eph. 1:4.
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Don't need it to disappear

The issue is are individuals or the body of Christ being refered to

Three verses make it clear men are not in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.


Men were in Christ before Paul

Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900)
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

The Ephesians addressed were clearly noted as being separate from Christ at a point in time

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

and in Christ when they believed
 
TomFL said:
Don't need it to disappear

The issue is are individuals or the body of Christ being refered to

Three verses make it clear men are not in Christ before the foundation of the earth

Romans 16:7 (KJV 1900)
7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.


Men were in Christ before Paul

Ephesians 2:12 (KJV 1900)
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:

The Ephesians addressed were clearly noted as being separate from Christ at a point in time

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV 1900)
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

and in Christ when they believed
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Please understand that you are speaking to those who will always choose desired narrative rather than objective facts.

"US IN CHRIST" at Ephesians 1:4 obviously refers to those in the Chosen One of God - believers. Long, long, ago, God chose for believers in Christ TO BE holy and blameless before him. What God chose is STATED by Paul - for believers - "us in him" to be holy and blameless.

This is a no-brainer. Only true believers are "in Christ" and the text is referring to the fact that, before the foundation of the world, God chose believers in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him JUST AS these same believers in verse 3 have been blessed in Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him.

Chose [us in him].... TO BE
 
Our Lord's God said:
Please understand that you are speaking to those who will always choose desired narrative rather than objective facts.
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That I believe is true in a number of cases. In any case I hope to make that clear to those who are reading
but not actively participating . I also believe there are some who are open to evidence


Our Lord's God said:
"US IN CHRIST" at Ephesians 1:4 obviously refers to those in the Chosen One of God - believers. Long, long, ago, God chose for believers in Christ TO BE holy and blameless before him. What God chose is STATED by Paul - for believers - "us in him" to be holy and blameless.

This is a no-brainer. Only true believers are "in Christ" and the text is referring to the fact that, before the foundation of the world, God chose believers in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him JUST AS these same believers in verse 3 have been blessed in Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him.

Chose [us in him].... TO BE
Click to expand...
 
Our Lord's God said:
Please understand that you are speaking to those who will always choose desired narrative rather than objective facts.

"US IN CHRIST" at Ephesians 1:4 obviously refers to those in the Chosen One of God - believers. Long, long, ago, God chose for believers in Christ TO BE holy and blameless before him. What God chose is STATED by Paul - for believers - "us in him" to be holy and blameless.

This is a no-brainer. Only true believers are "in Christ" and the text is referring to the fact that, before the foundation of the world, God chose believers in Christ to be holy and blameless before Him JUST AS these same believers in verse 3 have been blessed in Christ.

Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenlies in Christ, 4 just as He chose us in him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless before Him.

Chose [us in him].... TO BE
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The believers in Christ were not believers when they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. They did not exist then.
 
brightfame52 said:
The believers in Christ were not believers when they were chosen in Christ before the foundation of the world. They did not exist then.
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The verse is saying that before the foundation of the world, God chose believers who presently exist in Christ and it also tells what He chose these believers for - He chose them to be holy and blameless.

Edit by Mod.
 
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Our Lord's God said:
You certainly are an obtuse one aren't you.

The preceding and following context shows us quite clearly that Paul is speaking to those who are presently in Christ and is referring to God choosing those presently in Christ to be holy and blameless.

Yes, that is what you call basic reading comprehension.

But if you are intent on embarrassing yourself by offering us your personal delusions of reality, don't let me stop you.
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But Gods choice of them was in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world.
 
brightfame52 said:
Correct a collection of individuals who were chosen in Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world. Eph 1 4
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And individual men come into that elect body upon faith in the elect one Jesus Christ

Eph. 1:13 —KJV
“In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,”
 
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