In Jesus Name ?

mica

Well-known member
Yes.

The bible also says to sing to God in psalms:

. . .with psalms, hymns, and spiritual canticles, singing to God with the grace in your hearts. Col 3:16

O Lord, I have cried out to you, hear me. Attend to my voice, when I cry out to you.
Let my prayer be guided like incense in your sight: the lifting up of my hands, like the evening sacrifice.
Psalm 140:1-2

That is a prayer to Christ as well:

. . . we know that there is only one God, the Father, from whom all things are, and in whom we are, and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom all things are, and by whom we are. 1 Cor 8:6
where's the verse that says to pray to saint xyz, your dead relatives, Moses or anyone else?
 

balshan

Well-known member
‘I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob?’ He is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Matthew 22:32
You Jesus called me dead. There is nothing wrong with the word dead. Even the unsaved are still living in hell. So stop the stupid word games.
 

balshan

Well-known member
We ask Christians living or dead to pray for us. Likewise we pray for Christians living or dead.
Rubbish the dead are no longer interested in this world.

Ecc 9:5-6

For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun.

Psalm 6:5

For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?

No apostle prayed to Steven after he died, no apostle prayed to Mary after she died. It is not an apostolic practice, it is a pagan practice to pray to the dead.

Scripture clearly tell us who to pray to and it was not to dead. No one knows for sure where another person is after death.

Christians do not ask the dead to pray for them at all. There is no scriptural support for this at all.
 

balshan

Well-known member
you do that because the RCC teaches that,

scripture does not teach that.
And that is a major difference. One comes from man and the pagan world and is not of God, that is praying to the dead. This shows that from early on the RCC syncretized with the world around it. The other is following the word of God and that means NOT praying to the dead. But praying to God.
 

Theophilos

Active member
you do that because the RCC teaches that,

scripture does not teach that.
The scripture of Timothy (2 Tim 3:15) and the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and the earliest Christian Bibles are very clear on this point.

. . . it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins.
2 Maccabees 12:46
 

balshan

Well-known member
The scripture of Timothy (2 Tim 3:15) and the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and the earliest Christian Bibles are very clear on this point.

. . . it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins.
2 Maccabees 12:46
2 Tim 3:15

and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Acts 17:11

Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true.

Nothing about praying to the dead.

Maccabees are not scripture.
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
you do that because the RCC teaches that,

scripture does not teach that.

The scripture of Timothy (2 Tim 3:15) and the Bereans (Acts 17:11) and the earliest Christian Bibles are very clear on this point.

. . . it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins.
2 Maccabees 12:46
why didn't you actually post the verses from 2 Tim 3 and Acts 17 but did post the verse from 2 maccabees?
 

Theophilos

Active member
The focus being on the false scripture.
The LXX was the scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians. Those scriptures included 2 Maccabees.

2 Maccabees is found in the Old Testament for the earliest Christian bibles, and it is still in Catholic and Orthodox bibles. Luther removed it because he disagreed with its teaching about prayers for the departed.
 

mica

Well-known member
The LXX was the scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians. Those scriptures included 2 Maccabees.

2 Maccabees is found in the Old Testament for the earliest Christian bibles, and it is still in Catholic and Orthodox bibles. Luther removed it because he disagreed with its teaching about prayers for the departed.
we've been thru those unscriptural books many times before. catholics believe whatever the rcc tells them.
do you have one of those 'earliest Christian bibles' ?

it's amazing that catholics will believe anything the RCC tells them to believe, but they don't believe Jesus or the apostles.
 

balshan

Well-known member
The LXX was the scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians. Those scriptures included 2 Maccabees.

2 Maccabees is found in the Old Testament for the earliest Christian bibles, and it is still in Catholic and Orthodox bibles. Luther removed it because he disagreed with its teaching about prayers for the departed.
Who cares what the Greek speaking Jewish people did, they were not the authorities of Judaism. I don't care what Luther did either.
 

Theophilos

Active member
why didn't you actually post the verses from 2 Tim 3 and Acts 17 but did post the verse from 2 maccabees
Paul specifically praised the sacred scriptures that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child:
. . .from your infancy, you have known the Sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you toward salvation, through the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3 Tim 3:15

The Greek-speaking Jews and gentiles in Beroea (a city in northern Greece) searched the LXX scriptures to confirm Paul's teachings:
. . . the brothers promptly sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. And when they had arrived, they entered the synagogue of the Jews. But these were more noble than those who were at Thessalonica. They received the Word with all enthusiasm, daily examining the Scriptures to see if these things were so. And indeed, many believed among them, as well as not a few among the honorable Gentile men and women. Acts 17:10-12

These scriptures included 2 Maccabees. How do we know? Because 2 Maccabees is included in the earliest Bible manuscripts including Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. It is also included in the canons of Origen, Augustine, Council of Carthage and others.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
". . . it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins."
I see a world of difference between praying "on behalf of" the dead, and praying to the dead. The former? I'd rather pray for the family and friends of the deceased. The latter strikes me as being close to necromancy.

Just my 2 scents!
--Rich
 

mica

Well-known member
Paul specifically praised the sacred scriptures that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child:
. . .from your infancy, you have known the Sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you toward salvation, through the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3 Tim 3:15

The Greek-speaking Jews and gentiles in Beroea (a city in northern Greece) searched the LXX scriptures to confirm Paul's teachings:
. . . the brothers promptly sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. And when they had arrived, they entered the synagogue of the Jews. But these were more noble than those who were at Thessalonica. They received the Word with all enthusiasm, daily examining the Scriptures to see if these things were so. And indeed, many believed among them, as well as not a few among the honorable Gentile men and women. Acts 17:10-12

These scriptures included 2 Maccabees. How do we know? Because 2 Maccabees is included in the earliest Bible manuscripts including Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. It is also included in the canons of Origen, Augustine, Council of Carthage and others.
what's found in 2 Maccabees that Paul and Silas taught them?

post the verses they were seeking to validate using Maccabees.

Also post the Maccabees verses that they used to validate what Paul and Silas taught them.

Because 2 Maccabees is included in the earliest Bible manuscripts including Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus.
those seem very Latinish to me.
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
"those seem very Latinish to me."

True, but that was back when all the "ejimicated" high-brows sprinkled Latin in their speech. Look at all the scientific names for plants and animals. E.g.,thymus vulgaris or felis domesticus.

No problemo.
--Rich
 
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