In Jesus Name ?

Theophilos

Active member
what's found in 2 Maccabees that Paul and Silas taught them?

post the verses they were seeking to validate using Maccabees.

Also post the Maccabees verses that they used to validate what Paul and Silas taught them.


those seem very Latinish to me.
2 Maccabees confirms the gospel's teachings about the resurrection of the dead, and Chapter 7 is referenced in Hebrews:

. . .others suffered severe punishment, not yet receiving redemption, so that they would find a better resurrection. Hebrews 11:35

The passage from 2 Timothy also supports 2 Maccabees:

. . .from your infancy, you have known the Sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you toward salvation, through the faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture, having been divinely inspired, is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in justice, so that the man of God may be perfect, having been trained for every good work. 2 Tim 3:15-16

At the time this passage was written, much of the New Testament had not yet been written and the New Testament would not exist in its current form 250 years or more, but it is still scripture. The consensus of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit determined the canon of the New Testament. The same consensus included 2 Maccabees as part of the Christian Old Testament, and recognized its teachings about prayer for the departed.
 

balshan

Well-known member
". . . it is a holy and beneficial thought to pray on behalf of those who have passed away, so that they may be released from sins."
I see a world of difference between praying "on behalf of" the dead, and praying to the dead. The former? I'd rather pray for the family and friends of the deceased. The latter strikes me as being close to necromancy.

Just my 2 scents!
--Rich
excellent point. No point praying for those who died there fate is sealed but the members of their families need the comfort of the HS.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Paul specifically praised the sacred scriptures that Greek-speaking Timothy studied as a child:
. . .from your infancy, you have known the Sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you toward salvation, through the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 3 Tim 3:15

The Greek-speaking Jews and gentiles in Beroea (a city in northern Greece) searched the LXX scriptures to confirm Paul's teachings:
. . . the brothers promptly sent Paul and Silas away by night to Beroea. And when they had arrived, they entered the synagogue of the Jews. But these were more noble than those who were at Thessalonica. They received the Word with all enthusiasm, daily examining the Scriptures to see if these things were so. And indeed, many believed among them, as well as not a few among the honorable Gentile men and women. Acts 17:10-12

These scriptures included 2 Maccabees. How do we know? Because 2 Maccabees is included in the earliest Bible manuscripts including Codex Vaticanus and Codex Sinaiticus. It is also included in the canons of Origen, Augustine, Council of Carthage and others.
What proof have you that Timothy did not read the Hebrew Tanakh. The official Jewish leadership did not accept the Greek translation, as they became less accurate. So no surprise you prefer it. But are you an RCC?

In fact, the Jewish Community acknowledged that the prophetic gifts had ceased in Israel before the Apocrypha was written... The Apocrypha was not officially accepted by the Catholic Church at a universal council until 1546 at the Council of Trent...Many church Fathers rejected the Apocrypha as Scripture, and many just used them for devotional purposes.

 

mica

Well-known member
2 Maccabees confirms the gospel's teachings about the resurrection of the dead, and Chapter 7 is referenced in Hebrews:

. . .others suffered severe punishment, not yet receiving redemption, so that they would find a better resurrection. Hebrews 11:35
WHAT in 2 Maccabees supports that? WHAT verse(s)?

WHAT verse(s) in ch 7 support Heb 11.35 ?

The passage from 2 Timothy also supports 2 Maccabees:

. . .from your infancy, you have known the Sacred Scriptures, which are able to instruct you toward salvation, through the faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture, having been divinely inspired, is useful for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in justice, so that the man of God may be perfect, having been trained for every good work. 2 Tim 3:15-16
again, you seem unable to post the verses from 2 Maccabees that you claim support what Paul and Silas taught the people. if you can't post the Maccabees verses then they must not exist.

At the time this passage was written, much of the New Testament had not yet been written and the New Testament would not exist in its current form 250 years or more, but it is still scripture. The consensus of the Church guided by the Holy Spirit determined the canon of the New Testament.
the RCC is not guided by the Holy Spirit. It makes that very obvious.

The same consensus included 2 Maccabees as part of the Christian Old Testament, and recognized its teachings about prayer for the departed.
the same 'consensus' by false teachers... that's not something a believer will swallow as catholics do.
 

Kerwyn

Active member
The LXX was the scriptures used by Greek-speaking Jews and early Christians. Those scriptures included 2 Maccabees.

2 Maccabees is found in the Old Testament for the earliest Christian bibles, and it is still in Catholic and Orthodox bibles. Luther removed it because he disagreed with its teaching about prayers for the departed.
The temple scrolls that the Jews considered inspired never included the Apocrypha; they were not to be used to develop doctrine. The Maccabean books were written in the "400 years of silence". The Jews determined the OT canon prior to the writing of the LXX.

John 4:22 - You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews.
 

SPOKENWORD

Well-known member
We ask Christians living or dead to pray for us. Likewise we pray for Christians living or dead.
When one dies they are immediately judged by God. They are either saved or not. If not they will spend eternity in hell. I believe what Scripture says verses what man says. Is it Gods will that you pray for the dead?
 
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