Satan was called Theos-god because God was called Ho Theos in that passage, the same way it works at John 1:1-God called Ho Theos, the word plain Theos=a god. Its translating fact.
In The Beggining
- Thread starter James Jones
- Start date
Satan was called Theos-god because God was called Ho Theos in that passage, the same way it works at John 1:1-God called Ho Theos, the word plain Theos=a god. Its translating fact.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Test your logic.
Which is heavier -Fat or fat
Which is taller- Short or short
Which is faster- Slow or slow
Which has more God like qualities- God or god.
Upper or lower case is irrelevant, your interpretation of Jn 17:3 makes Jesus a false god in Jn 1:1.
You admitted the life in the him was Jesus correct? Plus you say the him is Jesus correct?
Jesus had godlike qualities because the true living God=His Father did all the powerful works through him-Acts 2:22, 1Cor 8:5-6) same with satan, he is powerful. He has mislead 99% all through mortal history. Including today. 1John 5:19-2Cor4:4 calls satan the god of this system of things. Sin = worship to satan. Unfortunately for mortal flesh, sin is pleasureful. Not so easy to beat. No mortal can beat satan without God on their side. 1/3 of the angels fell to him.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Your reasoning if flawed.
Notice the pattern you used to argue this. Since X applies to Y it applies to Z.
Since Jesus had godlike qualities it's because the true living God =His Father did all the powerful works through him, SAME with Satan".
What is the 'same' with Satan? We look back to the previous sentence.
You concluded that "Satan had godlike qualities it's because the true living God =His Father did all the powerful works through him"
Are you sure you want to make such a statement?
Still holds, your interpretation of Jn 17:3 makes Jesus a false god in Jn 1:1.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Seriously, I cannot follow this. Please elaborate.
What are you talking about as I asked 2 very clear questions? Now I will have to ask them 1 at a time. You admitted the life in the him was Jesus correct?
No i ended that first sentence by putting 2 scriptures after to prove that point., i stated satan was powerful, you twisted it into something else.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
no.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
The verses you posted.
I did not twist anything. What you wrote leads to that conclusion. Notice I asked you if that is your statement. Why? Because I did not believe you wrote with that conclusion is mind.
Lets go down the verses you posted.
Acts 2:22 held in isolation you might have a argument.
Note the immediate text identifies Jesus as YHWH in the OT
Here you have to connect the dots and put it together.
Reading Peter's sermon;
Acts 2:17-21 Peter quotes Joel especially first half of Joel 2:32 in Acts 2:21, where Lord translates from YHWH "…whoever calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved..."
Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, That whoever calls on the name of the LORD [YHWH] Shall be saved. For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the LORD has said, Among the remnant whom the LORD calls.
So we are looking for someone in the sermon who is called "Lord" whose name brings salvation.
Acts 2;36 Jesus identified as "Lord and Christ"
Acts 2:37 The crowd ask Peter what shall they do.
Acts 2:38 Peter explain what it means to call 'on the name of the Lord" Instead of repeating this statement when the crowd asked for more instructions, Peter commanded them, saying, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins”
Acts 2:39 Peter closes this part of his sermon by stating that Joel 2:32 has come to pass. Note the promise is not to anyone in the future but to the men listening, their children and all afar off, quoting the second half of Joel 2:32 …'For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance, As the Lord has said, “Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.”'
I Cor 8:6
1 Cor 8:6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
This is an old WTS talking point.
1. Bad logic. If the reference that the Father being “one God” proves that Jesus is not God, then by the same logic the reference that Jesus is “one Lord” means that the Father is not “Lord”. Matt 11:25 Jesus refers to the Father as God and Lord. It is illogical to conclude from this vs. that Jesus is not God as to conclude that the Father is not Lord.
2. Contradicts the author [Paul] and Scripture
Titus 2:13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
1 Jn 5:19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world lies under the sway of the wicked one.
Sway - deception, deceit, dishonesty, cheating, duplicity, double dealing, sleight of hand, cunning, etc.
The verse does not hint at all about 'powerful'.
2 Corinthians 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ
Paul intention is to communicate that Satan has blinded people, similar to Jn 5:19.
As to 'god of this age'.
What does Jesus have to say about Satan? Powerful or ruler
Jn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Jn 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me
Does anarthrous theos automatically equate to power of do we translate the meaning of Theos based on the text.
Following your logic, does Jesus call the individuals He is speaking to powerful [supernatural power] or ruler?
Jn 10:34 Jesus answered them, “Is it not written in your law, ‘I said, “You are gods” ’? 35 If He called them gods, to whom the word of God came (and the Scripture cannot be broken),
No its you twisting Titus- Appearing of God and appearing of Jesus=2 beings being mentioned.
The word-LORD does not belong in the OT--YHWH belongs in those spots. YHWH is called sovereign Lord in the OT. Psalm 73:28
gods, not God. Satan controlled the weather to kill Jobs kids, put those sores all over Jobs body--He has mislead 99% all through history if that isnt power, you are blind.
You say the him was Jesus the creator correct? Now the life in the him became the light of men and who John was a witness to. Who was the light of men and who John was a witness to?
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Really? Ps 110:1 The LORD said to my Lord, “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
Following your reasoning you have two YHWH.
Note.
YHWH said to my YHWH , “Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.” YHWH shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion. Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
Granville Sharp's rule states that when you have two nouns, which are not proper names (such as Cephas, or Paul, or Timothy), which are describing a person, and the two nouns are connected by the word "and," and the first noun has the article ("the") while the second does not, *both nouns are referring to the same person*. In our texts, this is demonstrated by the words "God" and "Savior" at Titus 2:13. "God" has the article, it is followed by the word for "and," and the word "Savior" does not have the article. Hence, both nouns are being applied to the same person, Jesus Christ. This rule is exceptionless. One must argue solely on theological grounds against these passages. There is truly no real grammatical objection that can be raised. Not that many have not attempted to do so, and are still trying. However, the evidence is overwhelming in favor of the above interpretation. Lets look at some of the evidence from the text itself.
1 Peter 1:1 our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
1:11 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
2:20 the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,
3:2 the Lord and Savior
3:18 our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
How did you come to this conclusion? From the text?
Same applies to.
2 Corinthians 4:4 whose minds the god of this age has blinded, who do not believe, lest the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ
Jn 12:31 Now is the judgment of this world; now the ruler of this world will be cast out.
Jn 14:30 I will no longer talk much with you, for the ruler of this world is coming, and he has nothing in Me
Nothing in the text hints to such power as described in Job. You might stretch it to imply power as authority to rule at best.
Also, contrasting Jesus' power to Satan's power is disingenuous. Satan was allowed kill Jobs children and cause sores on Job.
That different than Jesus upholding the universe by the word of His power {Heb 1:3} and in Jesus all things hold together and consist {Col. 1:17}.
In order for that to have happened, Satan would have to be in multiple places at once. Omnipresent.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Go ahead and answer it.
Only LORD all capitols=YHWH--The other Lord=Jesus. YHWH said to my Lord( Jesus) proving Jesus is not YHWH.
No he wouldnt, He has millions of fallen angels( demons) working for him. At Daniel 10:12-14 a demon stopped Gods angel for 21 days, Michael had to come intervene---That is power, satan is more powerful than that demon.
Last edited:
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
There are no capitals or lower case anything in the Hebrew language. You are translating in reverse.