Indicatives (Promises) and Imperatives (Commands)

Ladodgers6 said:
They are looking within for assurance, instead of that the person, and his finished works. No novelty here, it's Rome all over again; Legalism is their basis or ground of their justification before a Holy God.

In by Grace, BUT stay in by your obedience (works-righteousness) which will merit the final justification before God.​
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you espouse a dead faith with no fruit, no conversion, no new man, new birth, no power in the gospel or transformation, etc.......

and empty faith that produces nothing- its antinomianism, cheap grace and an intellectual faith based on words in a book, a mental assent to some facts.
 
civic said:
you espouse a dead faith with no fruit, no conversion, no new man, new birth, no power in the gospel or transformation, etc.......

and empty faith that produces nothing- its antinomianism, cheap grace and an intellectual faith based on words in a book, a mental assent to some facts.
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I would say he endorses Justification through Faith Alone, which can Save a man on his death bed without Post Salvific Works...
 
ReverendRV said:
I would say he endorses Justification through Faith Alone, which can Save a man on his death bed without Post Salvific Works...
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Well I'm not talking about the exception to the rule with death which I agree. I'm talking about the normal christian life that lasts for years not minutes or hours.
 
civic said:
Well I'm not talking about the exception to the rule with death which I agree. I'm talking about the normal christian life that lasts for years not minutes or hours.
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This reminds me of my thoughts on the HU. An Overhead Projector displays a Slide onto the Wall; but place another Slide on top of the other Slide; now both images are One Hypostasis of Justification projected onto the Wall. - The existence of exceptions shows the validity of Justification through Faith Alone, even without Saint James' Justification by Works. The exception allows for the projection of Justification through Faith Alone to truly be Valid. That is what I call 'Salavation Proper'...
 
ReverendRV said:
This reminds me of my thoughts on the HU. An Overhead Projector displays a Slide onto the Wall; but place another Slide on top of the other Slide; now both images are One Hypostasis of Justification projected onto the Wall. - The existence of exceptions shows the validity of Justification through Faith Alone, even without Saint James' Justification by Works. The exception allows for the projection of Justification through Faith Alone to truly be Valid. That is what I call 'Salavation Proper'...
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We love to quote Ephesians 2:8-10 in support of the solas we defend but for some reason leave out the entire purpose God saved us or by His grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. NIV


New Living Translation
For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

English Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Berean Study Bible
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Berean Literal Bible
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

New King James Version
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

New American Standard Bible
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

NASB 1995
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

NASB 1977
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Amplified Bible
For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].

Christian Standard Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

American Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we are his creatures who are created in Yeshua The Messiah for good works, those things which God had from the first prepared that we should walk in them.

Contemporary English Version
God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live. This is why he sent Christ to make us what we are.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

Good News Translation
God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.

International Standard Version
For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.

Literal Standard Version
for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus on good works, which God prepared before, that we may walk in them.

New American Bible
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

NET Bible
For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

New Revised Standard Version
For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

New Heart English Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Weymouth New Testament
For we are God's own handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works which He has pre-destined us to practise.

World English Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Young's Literal Translation
for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.
 
civic said:
We love to quote Ephesians 2:8-10 in support of the solas we defend but for some reason leave out the entire purpose God saved us or by His grace through faith.

Ephesians 2:8-10
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do. NIV


New Living Translation
For we are God’s masterpiece. He has created us anew in Christ Jesus, so we can do the good things he planned for us long ago.

English Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Berean Study Bible
For we are God’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance as our way of life.

Berean Literal Bible
For we are His workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

King James Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

New King James Version
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

New American Standard Bible
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

NASB 1995
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in them.

NASB 1977
For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Amplified Bible
For we are His workmanship [His own master work, a work of art], created in Christ Jesus [reborn from above—spiritually transformed, renewed, ready to be used] for good works, which God prepared [for us] beforehand [taking paths which He set], so that we would walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us].

Christian Standard Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time for us to do.

Holman Christian Standard Bible
For we are His creation, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared ahead of time so that we should walk in them.

American Standard Version
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God afore prepared that we should walk in them.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English
For we are his creatures who are created in Yeshua The Messiah for good works, those things which God had from the first prepared that we should walk in them.

Contemporary English Version
God planned for us to do good things and to live as he has always wanted us to live. This is why he sent Christ to make us what we are.

Douay-Rheims Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God hath prepared that we should walk in them.

Good News Translation
God has made us what we are, and in our union with Christ Jesus he has created us for a life of good deeds, which he has already prepared for us to do.

International Standard Version
For we are God's masterpiece, created in the Messiah Jesus to perform good actions that God prepared long ago to be our way of life.

Literal Standard Version
for we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus on good works, which God prepared before, that we may walk in them.

New American Bible
For we are his handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for the good works that God has prepared in advance, that we should live in them.

NET Bible
For we are his workmanship, having been created in Christ Jesus for good works that God prepared beforehand so we may do them.

New Revised Standard Version
For we are what he has made us, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand to be our way of life.

New Heart English Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Weymouth New Testament
For we are God's own handiwork, created in Christ Jesus for good works which He has pre-destined us to practise.

World English Bible
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared before that we would walk in them.

Young's Literal Translation
for of Him we are workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to good works, which God did before prepare, that in them we may walk.
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You and I don't leave it out...

You and I Witness to people, and when they put Faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord God and Savior; we tell them they ARE Saved...

This is Justification through Faith Alone. Non-Calvinists say we should tell strangers that they can't Believe if they're not Elect. Lordship Salvation adherents don't tell people they may be Rocky Soil, and the Gospel we just presented to them may not Save them. You and I tell them they are Saved, so when we tell them they must Persevere in the Faith; this is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ but is the Meat of Doctrine...
 
ReverendRV said:
You and I don't leave it out...

You and I Witness to people, and when they put Faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord God and Savior; we tell them they ARE Saved...

This is Justification through Faith Alone. Non-Calvinists say we should tell strangers that they can't Believe if they're not Elect. Lordship Salvation adherents don't tell people they may be Rocky Soil, and the Gospel we just presented to them may not Save them. You and I tell them they are Saved, so when we tell them they must Persevere in the Faith; this is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ but is the Meat of Doctrine...
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I actually share what it means to be a disciple and counting the cost. Its not an easy road/path the christian life. Its a battle, a war, something they will be entering into for the rest of their life. Its no easy believism that's for sure.
 
civic said:
I actually share what it means to be a disciple and counting the cost. Its not an easy road/path the christian life. Its a battle, a war, something they will be entering into for the rest of their life. Its no easy believism that's for sure.
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Fair enough...

Would you say it's up to the Believer to then determine after their Salvation Proper, if they are the Good Soil or Weedy Soil?
 
civic said:
I actually share what it means to be a disciple and counting the cost. Its not an easy road/path the christian life. Its a battle, a war, something they will be entering into for the rest of their life. Its no easy believism that's for sure.
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Since you include Lordship Salvation as part of the Gospel of Jesus Christ, do you think that's like Anti Calvinists saying we should tell strangers they can't Believe because they may be the Trodden Path?

I see a similarity...

To me, Lordship Salvation isn't Good News; I stumble and fall all the time...
 
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civic said:
Time will tell, they will know one way or the other if Jesus is real in their life and they have truly been born again.
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When Calvinists say TULIP is the Gospel, tell them they AGREE with Lordship Salvation; because that means Perseverance is part of the Gospel ;)

Gotta go spend time with my daughter...
 
Ladodgers6 said:
They are looking within for assurance, instead of that the person, and his finished works. No novelty here, it's Rome all over again; Legalism is their basis or ground of their justification before a Holy God.

In by Grace, BUT stay in by your obedience (works-righteousness) which will merit the final justification before God.​
Click to expand...
Compared with how you were, before God saved you, what difference has being born again made in your life-style?
 
ReverendRV said:
This reminds me of my thoughts on the HU. An Overhead Projector displays a Slide onto the Wall; but place another Slide on top of the other Slide; now both images are One Hypostasis of Justification projected onto the Wall. - The existence of exceptions shows the validity of Justification through Faith Alone, even without Saint James' Justification by Works. The exception allows for the projection of Justification through Faith Alone to truly be Valid. That is what I call 'Salavation Proper'...
Click to expand...
A new heart spirit produces new fruit. The ONLY reason this is not seen in a death-bed conversion, is lack of time.
 
David1701 said:
Compared with how you were, before God saved you, what difference has being born again made in your life-style?
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I do not boast about my works, only in the Cross of Christ! 4:2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Am I denying good works? Am I promoting sin?

3:8And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

Paul was accused of antinomianism, of so despising the law of the OT and being so intoxicated by the primacy of grace and the sweetness of the Gospel that he had completely dispensed with the Law. Such slander went around the community, where people said this Jewish teacher was denying the Law of God. Paul never denied God's Law. He always understood the proper relationship between the Law of God and the Gospel of God in relation to Justification of the ungodly sinner through Faith Alone!

So, if I am also dealing with this objection & accusation of Antinomianism from you guys, then I am presenting it right.

Am I denying the new birth? Then present my errors of where in any of posts, I say this?​
 
ReverendRV said:
Fair enough...

Would you say it's up to the Believer to then determine after their Salvation Proper, if they are the Good Soil or Weedy Soil?
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2 Corinthians 13:5 (KJV)
5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?
 
Ladodgers6 said:
I do not boast about my works, only in the Cross of Christ! 4:2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God.

Am I denying good works? Am I promoting sin?

3:8And why not do evil that good may come?—as some people slanderously charge us with saying. Their condemnation is just.

Paul was accused of antinomianism, of so despising the law of the OT and being so intoxicated by the primacy of grace and the sweetness of the Gospel that he had completely dispensed with the Law. Such slander went around the community, where people said this Jewish teacher was denying the Law of God. Paul never denied God's Law. He always understood the proper relationship between the Law of God and the Gospel of God in relation to Justification of the ungodly sinner through Faith Alone!

So, if I am also dealing with this objection & accusation of Antinomianism from you guys, then I am presenting it right.

Am I denying the new birth? Then present my errors of where in any of posts, I say this?​
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I am not accusing you of anything. I simply wanted to ask a rhetorical question about the change that God has wrought in your life, by making you born again.
 
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