Indulgences

Septextura

Well-known member
3 days left in November to get your indulgences for the dead suffering in purgatory. Hurry up! Use coupon code NECROMANOVEMBER to get 5% discount!



How does one know if their suffering in 'purgatory' is not actually eternal damnation in hell?
 

balshan

Well-known member
3 days left in November to get your indulgences for the dead suffering in purgatory. Hurry up! Use coupon code NECROMANOVEMBER to get 5% discount!



How does one know if their suffering in 'purgatory' is not actually eternal damnation in hell?
One doesn't. It is a money grab.
 

Septextura

Well-known member
So you've been a good catholic all your life. You die and wake up in searing pain in hell, thinking "OK this is purgatory, it will take a while but I'll be in paradise eventually."

500 years of unimaginable suffering go by and you show up at the judgment seat of God. Your life is examined, false religion exposed, then of you go again to suffer in excruciating agony, forever and ever, knowing there is no hope. Both you and the pedophile ring leader pope that sold you the indulgences.

Don't Catholics ever worry about stuff like this?
 

balshan

Well-known member
So you've been a good catholic all your life. You die and wake up in searing pain in hell, thinking "OK this is purgatory, it will take a while but I'll be in paradise eventually."

500 years of unimaginable suffering go by and you show up at the judgment seat of God. Your life is examined, false religion exposed, then of you go again to suffer in excruciating agony, forever and ever, knowing there is no hope. Both you and the pedophile ring leader pope that sold you the indulgences.

Don't Catholics ever worry about stuff like this?
excellent question.
 
So you've been a good catholic all your life. You die and wake up in searing pain in hell, thinking "OK this is purgatory, it will take a while but I'll be in paradise eventually."

500 years of unimaginable suffering go by and you show up at the judgment seat of God. Your life is examined, false religion exposed, then of you go again to suffer in excruciating agony, forever and ever, knowing there is no hope. Both you and the pedophile ring leader pope that sold you the indulgences.

Don't Catholics ever worry about stuff like this?
I'm still running the race.
 

mica

Well-known member
I'm still running the race.
you're running the wrong direction in the wrong race. As long as you're still breathing you still have time and opportunity to turn to Christ and be saved. But then, none of us know when we'll be taking our last breath in this world - it could be yet today... or tomorrow.
 
you're running the wrong direction in the wrong race. As long as you're still breathing you still have time and opportunity to turn to Christ and be saved. But then, none of us know when we'll be taking our last breath in this world - it could be yet today... or tomorrow.
Thank God I trusted Him and as an obedient servant, I feel 'pretty good'.
 

utilyan

Member
3 days left in November to get your indulgences for the dead suffering in purgatory. Hurry up! Use coupon code NECROMANOVEMBER to get 5% discount!



How does one know if their suffering in 'purgatory' is not actually eternal damnation in hell?

Show the teaching that purgatory involves suffering.

The Church can bind and loose. Yours can't?
 

Septextura

Well-known member
Quote the exact teaching. IS it exactly like fire?

Literally says nothing like hell and your insisting we say people burn there.

Clicky: https://www.britannica.com/topic/indulgence

The granting of indulgences was predicated on two beliefs. First, in the sacrament of penance it did not suffice to have the guilt (culpa) of sin forgiven through absolution alone; one also needed to undergo temporal punishment (poena, from p[o]enitentia, “penance”) because one had offended Almighty God. Second, indulgences rested on belief in purgatory, a place in the next life where one could continue to cancel the accumulated debt of one’s sins, another Western medieval conception not shared by Eastern Orthodoxy or other Eastern Christian churches not recognizing the primacy of the pope.

From the early church onward, bishops could reduce or dispense with the rigours of penances, but indulgences emerged in only the 11th and 12th centuries when the idea of purgatory took widespread hold and when the popes became the activist leaders of the reforming church. In their zeal, they promoted the militant reclamation of once-Christian lands—first of Iberia in the Reconquista, then of the Holy Land in the Crusades—offering “full remission of sins,” the first indulgences, as inducements to participation.

Papal pronouncements, oral and written, were often vague, however, and raised many questions among the pious. To clarify all these issues, the Scholastic theologians of the 12th and 13th centuries worked out a fully articulated theory of penance. It consisted of three parts: contrition, confession, and satisfaction. The debt of forgiven sin could be reduced through the performance of good works in this life (pilgrimages, charitable acts, and the like) or through suffering in purgatory. Indulgences could be granted only by popes or, to a lesser extent, archbishops and bishops as ways of helping ordinary people measure and amortize their remaining debt. “Plenary,” or full, indulgences cancelled all the existing obligation, while “partial” indulgences remitted only a portion of it. People naturally wanted to know how much debt was forgiven (just as modern students want to know exactly what they need to study for examinations), so set periods of days, months, and years came gradually to be attached to different kinds of partial indulgences.

One did not, however, have to do it all by oneself. Medieval Christianity was a vast community of mutual help through prayer and good works, uniting the living and the dead in the Church Militant on earth, the Church Suffering in purgatory, and the Church Triumphant in heaven. The good works of Jesus Christ, the saints, and others could be drawn upon to liberate souls from purgatory. In 1343 Pope Clement VI decreed that all these good works were in the Treasury of Merit, over which the pope had control.
 
exactly... catholics don't know or understand His word, they believe whatever the RCC teaches them.
Excellent news mica!!! so you see that even the early church was Catholic.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, though writing around AD 106, clearly represents the theology of the first century. He warns, “But look at those men who have those perverted notions about the grace of Jesus Christ which has come down to us, and see how contrary to the mind of God they are . . . . They even ABSTAIN FROM THE EUCHARIST and the public prayer, because they will NOT ADMIT that the Eucharist is the self-same body of our Savior Jesus Christ, which [flesh] suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His goodness raised up again” (Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 6, 7).
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Show the teaching that purgatory involves suffering.

The Church can bind and loose. Yours can't?
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there is in Purgatory, as in Hell, a double pain - the pain of loss and the pain of sense.
The pain of loss consists in being deprived for a time of the sight of God. . . It is a moral thirst which torments the soul. The pain of sense, or sensible suffering, is the same as that which we experience in our flesh. It's nature is not defined by faith, but it is the common opinion of the Doctors that it consists in fire and other species of suffering. The fire of Purgatory, say the Fathers, is that of Hell, of which the rich glutton speaks, Quia cructor in hac flamma, "I suffer," he says, "cruelly in these flames."
As regards the severity of these pains, since they are inflicted by Infinite Justice, they are proportioned to the nature, gravity, and number of sins committed. Each one receives according to his works, each one must acquit himself of the debts with which he sees himself charged before God. Now these debts differ greatly in quality. Some, which have accumulated during a long life, have reached the ten thousand talents of the Gospel, that is to say millions and ten of millions; whilst others are reduced to a few farthings, the trifling remainder of that which has not been expiated on earth. It follows from this that the souls undergo various kinds of sufferings, that there are innumerable degrees of expiation in Purgatory, and that some are incomparably more severe than others. However, speaking in general, the Doctors agree in saying that the pains are most excruciating. The same fire, says St. Gregory, torments the damned and purifies the elect. "Almost all theologians," says St. Bellarmine, teach that the reprobate and the souls in Purgatory suffer the action of the same fire." (De Purgat., i. 2, cap. 6)
It must be held as certain, writes the same Bellarmine, that there is no proportion between the sufferings of this life and those of Purgatory. (De Gemitu Columbae, lib. 2, cap. 9). St. Augustine declares precisely the same in his commentary on Psalm 31: Lord, he says, chastise me not in Thy wrath, and reject me not with those to whom Thou hast said, Go into eternal fire; but in such manner in this life that I need not to be purified by fire in the next. Yes, I fear that fire which has been enkindled for those who will be saved, it is true, but yet so as by fire. They will be saved, no doubt, after the trial of fire, but that trial will be terrible, that torment will be more intolerable than all the most excruciating sufferings in this world. Behold what St. Augustine says, and what St. Gregory, Venerable Bede, St. Anselm, and St. Bernard have said after him. St. Thomas goes even further, he maintains that the least pain of Purgatory surpasses all the suffering of this life, whatsoever they may be . Pain, says Bl. Peter Lefevere, is deeper and more acute when it directly attacks the soul and the mind than when it reaches them only through the medium of the body. The mortal body, and the senses themselves, absorb and intercept a part of the physical, and even of moral pain. (Sentim. du . Lefevre sur la Purg., Mess. du S. Coeur, Nov. 1873).
The author of the Imitation explains this doctrine by a practical and striking sentence. Speaking in general of the sufferings of the other life; "There", he says, "one hour of torment will be more terrible than a hundred years of rigorous penance done here." (lib. 1, chap. 24)

Purgatory by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.

Nihil obstat: H. M. Bayley,
Censor deputatus

Imprimatur: Herbertus Cardinal Baughan,
Archiep. Westmonasterien.
October 11, 1893

Want some more Roman Catholic Church teaching on purgatory that involves suffering? There's lots of it!
 

Septextura

Well-known member
The Roman Catholic Church teaches that there is in Purgatory, as in Hell, a double pain - the pain of loss and the pain of sense.
The pain of loss consists in being deprived for a time of the sight of God. . . It is a moral thirst which torments the soul. The pain of sense, or sensible suffering, is the same as that which we experience in our flesh. It's nature is not defined by faith, but it is the common opinion of the Doctors that it consists in fire and other species of suffering. The fire of Purgatory, say the Fathers, is that of Hell, of which the rich glutton speaks, Quia cructor in hac flamma, "I suffer," he says, "cruelly in these flames."
As regards the severity of these pains, since they are inflicted by Infinite Justice, they are proportioned to the nature, gravity, and number of sins committed. Each one receives according to his works, each one must acquit himself of the debts with which he sees himself charged before God. Now these debts differ greatly in quality. Some, which have accumulated during a long life, have reached the ten thousand talents of the Gospel, that is to say millions and ten of millions; whilst others are reduced to a few farthings, the trifling remainder of that which has not been expiated on earth. It follows from this that the souls undergo various kinds of sufferings, that there are innumerable degrees of expiation in Purgatory, and that some are incomparably more severe than others. However, speaking in general, the Doctors agree in saying that the pains are most excruciating. The same fire, says St. Gregory, torments the damned and purifies the elect. "Almost all theologians," says St. Bellarmine, teach that the reprobate and the souls in Purgatory suffer the action of the same fire." (De Purgat., i. 2, cap. 6)
It must be held as certain, writes the same Bellarmine, that there is no proportion between the sufferings of this life and those of Purgatory. (De Gemitu Columbae, lib. 2, cap. 9). St. Augustine declares precisely the same in his commentary on Psalm 31: Lord, he says, chastise me not in Thy wrath, and reject me not with those to whom Thou hast said, Go into eternal fire; but in such manner in this life that I need not to be purified by fire in the next. Yes, I fear that fire which has been enkindled for those who will be saved, it is true, but yet so as by fire. They will be saved, no doubt, after the trial of fire, but that trial will be terrible, that torment will be more intolerable than all the most excruciating sufferings in this world. Behold what St. Augustine says, and what St. Gregory, Venerable Bede, St. Anselm, and St. Bernard have said after him. St. Thomas goes even further, he maintains that the least pain of Purgatory surpasses all the suffering of this life, whatsoever they may be . Pain, says Bl. Peter Lefevere, is deeper and more acute when it directly attacks the soul and the mind than when it reaches them only through the medium of the body. The mortal body, and the senses themselves, absorb and intercept a part of the physical, and even of moral pain. (Sentim. du . Lefevre sur la Purg., Mess. du S. Coeur, Nov. 1873).
The author of the Imitation explains this doctrine by a practical and striking sentence. Speaking in general of the sufferings of the other life; "There", he says, "one hour of torment will be more terrible than a hundred years of rigorous penance done here." (lib. 1, chap. 24)

Purgatory by Fr. F.X. Schouppe, S.J.

Nihil obstat: H. M. Bayley,
Censor deputatus

Imprimatur: Herbertus Cardinal Baughan,
Archiep. Westmonasterien.
October 11, 1893

Want some more Roman Catholic Church teaching on purgatory that involves suffering? There's lots of it!



@utilyan - Worried?
 

mica

Well-known member
mica said:
exactly... catholics don't know or understand His word, they believe whatever the RCC teaches them

Excellent news mica!!! so you see that even the early church was Catholic.
Your response shows that you don't understand even a simple post.... but as usual read into it something that isn't there and twist it to support the lies of the rcc. Catholics do the same with scripture.

St. Ignatius of Antioch, though writing around AD 106, clearly represents the theology of the first century. He warns, “But look at those men who have those perverted notions about the grace of Jesus Christ which has come down to us, and see how contrary to the mind of God they are . . . . They even ABSTAIN FROM THE EUCHARIST and the public prayer, because they will NOT ADMIT that the Eucharist is the self-same body of our Savior Jesus Christ, which [flesh] suffered for our sins, and which the Father in His goodness raised up again” (Epistle to the Smyrnaeans 6, 7).
a good reason not to believe what Ignatius wrote.

no, believers won't 'submit' to the lies of those who believe the words of men instead of the words of God. catholics believe the words of men. I thank God that I am no longer bond to catholicism and its unbiblical beliefs.
 
Your response shows that you don't understand even a simple post.... but as usual read into it something that isn't there and twist it to support the lies of the rcc. Catholics do the same with scripture.


a good reason not to believe what Ignatius wrote.

no, believers won't 'submit' to the lies of those who believe the words of men instead of the words of God. catholics believe the words of men. I thank God that I am no longer bond to catholicism and its unbiblical beliefs.
Did St. John do a poor job of training Ignatius and Polycarp?
 
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