Infidels, Take A Brief Peek Into The Devotional Life Of We Bible Believers.

If I am among the elect, then listening to Christians will not change me from elect to non-elect. Listening to Christians will have no effect.

If I am not among the elect, then listening to Christians will not change me from non-elect to. Listening to Christians will have no effect.

From what you say, listening to you will change noting of significance.

You really need a better message here: "Listen to what I am saying and it won't change anything."
`
You did not read my post carefully or correctly.

Looking at election from God's viewpoint: True it cannot be changed.

But as I made very clear in my post: We humans can NOT look at election
from God's point of view -- we therefore can look at election ONLY from
our human point of view. Therefore we can NOT know who the elect are.

So?

So that means as far as you and I are concerned the door of salvation id open.

And . . .

The Lord Jesus says to you:

"Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and
opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me."
Revelation 3:20

And Jesus up there means He will give you eternal life, not that He will
literally eat dinner with you -- though He will do that later in Heaven with
His elect.


Best

JAG

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What do you hope to accomplish, then, in warning us about a danger we don't think is real?
You don't bother to carefully read posts and then seriously think about
what you read -- if you had done that you would not have asked your
above question -- because just above up there I said this:

"Our Lord Jesus commands we Christians to proclaim the good
news of the gospel to everybody. Why command that since God's
elect are the only ones that are going to be saved? Because we
humans cannot know who the elect are -- only God knows that."
__JAG

Add this:
Another reason I am out here is because I love the Lord Jesus and I am
therefore taking my stand for Him who died for me. You surely can
understand that, can't you?

I am on His side.


I am on His side.

I am taking my stand, on His side --for Him.

Do you understand that?

Best

JAG


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"Our Lord Jesus commands we Christians to proclaim the good
news of the gospel to everybody. Why command that since God's
elect are the only ones that are going to be saved? Because we
humans cannot know who the elect are -- only God knows that."
Your god commands you to warn people about a danger they don't believe is real?
 
I'm not hanging out with Satan? If I believed in Satan then I'd believe in God.
I do like the idea of a God but liking an idea doesn't make it true.
I believe that if you knew Him you would both like Him a lot and love Him too
because . . .

God Is The , , , ,
Original Mathematician
Original Physicist
Original Cosmologist
Original Inventor
Original Artist
Original Scientist
Original Oceanographer
Original Philosopher
Original Epistemologist
Original Empiricist
Original Poet
Original Writer
Original Lover {wanting the best for others}
Original Chooser { Volition }
Original Economist
Original Emotion-ist {the full range of All Good Emotions}
Original Planner
Original Creator
Original Designer
Original Technologist
Original Educator
Original Everything Good , , ,

, , and we humans participate in all that up there since we are
made in the image of God , , ,

, , and that above is why human beings, made in the image of God,
have been able to build the modern world and will be able to keep making
progress in Science and Technology for ever and ever, even when the
human race makes the transition from Earthly human history to Eternity.

Humans are made in the image of God and God has , ,
~ An Intellect --- and so do we humans
~ Emotions --- and so do we humans
~ Volition {a Will, the ability to choose -- and so do we humans]

Best

JAG

[]

PS
You were made in God's image -- you were made to have fellowship with
Him for all eternity. But you need help in order to be able to do that.

You can get that help by asking for it,

``
 
Your god commands you to warn people about a danger they don't believe is real?
Yes. Exactly. He does do that.

What about this part below?
Do you under the following? Yes or No.

JAG wrote:

"Add this:
Another reason I am out here is because I love the Lord Jesus and I am
therefore taking my stand for Him who died for me. You surely can
understand that, can't you?

I am on His side.

I am on His side.

I am taking my stand, on His side --for Him.

Do you understand that?"

Best

JAG

[]
 
So that means as far as you and I are concerned the door of salvation i(s) open.
Incorrect. The door is either always open, or permanently locked closed. We do not know which it is.

No actions we can take will change the state of the door; anything we can do will have no effect on the door.

Spending a few hours in church every week will not have any impact on the door. Spending a few hours at a football match will have precisely the same impact on the door as going to church: zero impact.

You are telling me that attending church is as useless to me as going to football. Neither will change the door from its current state: open or closed.
 
Incorrect. The door is either always open, or permanently locked closed. We do not know which it is.

No actions we can take will change the state of the door; anything we can do will have no effect on the door.

Spending a few hours in church every week will not have any impact on the door. Spending a few hours at a football match will have precisely the same impact on the door as going to church: zero impact.

You are telling me that attending church is as useless to me as going to football. Neither will change the door from its current state: open or closed.
You did not read my post carefully or correctly.

Looking at election from God's viewpoint: Nothing can be changed.

But as I made very clear in my post: We humans can NOT look at election
from God's point of view -- we therefore can look at election ONLY from
our human point of view. Therefore we can NOT know who the elect are.

Or what our future holds . . .

So?

So that means as far as you and I are concerned the door of salvation is always open.

________________

Another illustration:

If God knows that you will lose your right leg in a car wreck, then there
is nothing you can ever say, think, or do to prevent what God knows
from actually taking place.

You will in fact lose your right leg in a car wreck.

However you can NOT look at that from God's point of view.

You MUST always look at it from your limited human point of view -- which
means you can NOT see your future and therefore it is in your best
interest to always drive cautiously and be on the look out for crazy drivers
on the highway -- and also pray to God for His protection. Remember you can
NOT know what God knows.

Best

JAG

[]
 
You did not read my post carefully or correctly.

Looking at election from God's viewpoint: Nothing can be changed.

But as I made very clear in my post: We humans can NOT look at election
from God's point of view -- we therefore can look at election ONLY from
our human point of view. Therefore we can NOT know who the elect are.

Or what our future holds . . .

So?
So your god plays favourites - chooses some, but not all.
 
But as I made very clear in my post: We humans can NOT look at election
from God's point of view -- we therefore can look at election ONLY from
our human point of view. Therefore we can NOT know who the elect are.
But we do know that whatever the state of the door, we cannot change it. Going to church will not change it. Going to a football match will not change it. Going out and killing someone will not change it.

The state of the door is fixed and unchangeable by any actions we may take. Given that nothing we can do will change it, why waste time trying to do the impossible? Better to go down the pub for a pint or two and enjoy myself.

You want me do do things, when those things will have no effect on the state of the door. As you tell me, I cannot alter the door in any way; it is fixed open or fixed closed. Why should I undertake useless and ineffective actions?
 
So your god plays favourites - chooses some, but not all.
"Playing favorites" is your uppity characterization of a deep mystery
that you are incapable of understanding. You do have the ability,
at least at the moment, to sit in judgment upon your Creator. However,
your power to do that will eventually be brought to an end.

Meanwhile . . . . .

"all the ways that wickedness deceives those who are perishing.
They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.

For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion
so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be
condemned
who have not believed the truth but have delighted
in wickedness."
2 Thess 2:10-11

JAG

[]
 
But we do know that whatever the state of the door, we cannot change it. Going to church will not change it. Going to a football match will not change it. Going out and killing someone will not change it.

The state of the door is fixed and unchangeable by any actions we may take. Given that nothing we can do will change it, why waste time trying to do the impossible? Better to go down the pub for a pint or two and enjoy myself.

You want me do do things, when those things will have no effect on the state of the door. As you tell me, I cannot alter the door in any way; it is fixed open or fixed closed. Why should I undertake useless and ineffective actions?
Re what I bolded:
You cannot possibly know that.
You cannot see the future.
Therefore you do not know that going to church will not change it --
looking at it from your limited human viewpoint -- which is the
one and only viewpoint from which you can look at it.

You can NOT look at it from God's point of view because you are not God.

JAG

[]
 
Your god chooses some, and not others.

You only think this fair because you (think you) are one of the former.
The Christian doctrine of election is a mystery.
We can't know the reasons God elects some and not others, but
we can know that God always does that which is right.

I trust Him.

Best

JAG

[]
 
The Christian doctrine of election is a mystery.
We can't know the reasons God elects some and not others, but
we can know that God always does that which is right.
Easy to say, from the perspective of one who thinks they are chosen...
 
You cannot possibly know that.
You cannot see the future.
So, my actions can change the state of the door? That sounds very like salvation by works, which I suspect you would reject. Going to church is an action, and if that action will open a previously closed door, then that is salvation by works.

If the state of the door is fixed by God's foreknowledge, then my point remains. I can neither open nor close the door by my actions.

Therefore you do not know that going to church will not change it
Then, going to my local Catholic church, partaking of the sacraments and praying to Mary will open the door for me? There are a great many churches I could go to. However, I suspect you would not say that all of them will open the door for me.

How do you know which churches are effective, and which are not? You are human and prone to error, so I cannot just rely on what you say. There are hundreds of different interpretations of the Bible by fallible humans, so I cannot rely on Bible interpretations either.
 
You stated you've "been there done that"

So if you figure out what you done and where you were at, you'll discover the what.

Every one and every thing belongs to God to do as He wills, so technically you do.

There is no need to force God to do anything. He has already done what you needed.

For you to accept it is what is required.

However if you decide to go toe to toe with God, good luck.
You claimed I'd been brought to some "knowledge of the truth".
If that is so then I am unaware of it and can therefore do nothing with it.
I can't go toe to toe with a God I have no awareness of existing.
 
So, my actions can change the state of the door? That sounds very like salvation by works, which I suspect you would reject. Going to church is an action, and if that action will open a previously closed door, then that is salvation by works.

If the state of the door is fixed by God's foreknowledge, then my point remains. I can neither open nor close the door by my actions.


Then, going to my local Catholic church, partaking of the sacraments and praying to Mary will open the door for me? There are a great many churches I could go to. However, I suspect you would not say that all of them will open the door for me.

How do you know which churches are effective, and which are not? You are human and prone to error, so I cannot just rely on what you say. There are hundreds of different interpretations of the Bible by fallible humans, so I cannot rely on Bible interpretations either.
The New Testament teaches the following:

You, now as an unregenerated sinner, are totally dead spiritually.

You cannot understand spiritual truth.

All you can now understand is bits and pieces of the confusion that is the World of Secularism.

You, being totally dead to spiritual truth, need help to break out of your deadness.

You cannot do that in your own strength.

You must have supernatural help from the Holy Spirit in order to understand spiritual truths.

Jesus called this supernatural help being born again in John 3:3

If you never get supernatural help then you will continue to post as you do, endlessly
arguing against all biblical truths that would help you break free of your bondage.

You MUST be regenerated in order to understand spiritual truths.

The Lord Jesus repeatedly told the people that if you do not believe that I am
who I say I am, then you will die in your sins. - eg. John 8:24

You do not want to die in your sins.

That is not good for you.

That is not in your best interest.

How do you get in the condition where you will NOT die in your sins?

You can pray sincerely a simple prayer from the heart -- a prayer like this one:

"Dear Lord Jesus, I know that I am a sinner, and I ask for Your forgiveness. I believe
You died for my sins and rose from the dead. I turn from my sins and invite You to
come into my heart and life. I want to trust and follow You as my Lord and Savior."

Pray that prayer sincerely from the heart and your life will be completely turned
around for the good -- and you will get the supernatural help that you need and
MUST have in order to believe on the Lord Jesus as your Savior.

Best

JAG

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