Interesting article on religious doubts

The Pixie

Well-known member
Ok.

I see no point in discussing the article with you because you explicitly stated that you believe it's a waste of your time.

So, you have achieved what you wanted.

To be ignored.
But you refuse to discuss the article with anyone.

So I guess you got what you wanted.

Just like you did with the issue of whether Paul changed his name - you refused to commit either and so avoided the discussion.

Just like you did with the issue of the virgin birth - I gave my side of the argument, and you just ignored it to rant.

Again and again you show you are not actually interested in discussion.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
But you refuse to discuss the article with anyone.

So I guess you got what you wanted.

Just like you did with the issue of whether Paul changed his name - you refused to commit either and so avoided the discussion.

Just like you did with the issue of the virgin birth - I gave my side of the argument, and you just ignored it to rant.

Again and again you show you are not actually interested in discussion.
🤦🏾‍♂️So far the only thing you've done is to tell me that you don't believe the article is worth discussing. So, stop talking already.
🤦🏾‍♂️🙄
 

SteveB

Well-known member
How do you define skepticism?
skeptical attitude or temper; doubt.
doubt or unbelief with regard to a religion, especially Christianity.
(initial capital letter)
the doctrines or opinions of philosophical Skeptics; universal doubt.

I'd say that it's doubt to the point where you refuse to believe it's true, regardless of how much evidence is provided.

In the bible, there's a narrative that describes a period in history which Jesus and God are made known to the human race, and human civilization is benefitted in every manner, and people still refuse to believe him.
 

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
I'd say that it's doubt to the point where you refuse to believe it's true, regardless of how much evidence is provided.
I wouldn't.
In the bible, there's a narrative that describes a period in history which Jesus and God are made known to the human race, and human civilization is benefitted in every manner, and people still refuse to believe him.
If true, I think those people were idiots, because I would have believed, under those circumstances.

(I also believe that this narrative was written merely to give apologists an excuse to offer for why their god does not appear to everybody in the present day, but that's by-the-by...)
 

bigthinker

Well-known member
So, you use doubt to justify outright rejection, and "throw the baby out with the bathwater" entirely.
No, not at all.
Doubt is the beginning. Doubt leads to questions.
The baby is "thrown out" after an exhaustive process, which involved (for me, at least) giving God every opportunity to make Himself known.
 

Tiburon

Well-known member
skeptical attitude or temper; doubt.
doubt or unbelief with regard to a religion, especially Christianity.
(initial capital letter)
the doctrines or opinions of philosophical Skeptics; universal doubt.

I'd say that it's doubt to the point where you refuse to believe it's true, regardless of how much evidence is provided.

In the bible, there's a narrative that describes a period in history which Jesus and God are made known to the human race, and human civilization is benefitted in every manner, and people still refuse to believe him.
When was this utopian time? Where is it mentioned in the bible?
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
I'd say that it's doubt to the point where you refuse to believe it's true, regardless of how much evidence is provided.
So unrelated to the atheists at CARM, as they have been provided with virtually no evidence.

The best you have is that if we do not believe in a loving God then the loving God we do not believe in will torture us forever, which is in fact the reason I for one reject the claim.

In the bible, there's a narrative that describes a period in history which Jesus and God are made known to the human race, and human civilization is benefitted in every manner, and people still refuse to believe him.
Really? The whole human race? And Jesus was known to them all? And there was a civilisation at that time?
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
......... if we do not believe in a loving God then the loving God we do not believe in will torture us forever,

"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat."

"Maybe if I say it enough times it will be true."
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat.
"The earth is flat."

"Maybe if I say it enough times it will be true."
What exactly is your point here, stiggy? Do you have one? If I did not know you are a Christian I would assume your comment here was mocking the Christian position, which is to just continually assert you are right.

Putting this in context, SteveB said:

"I'd say that it's doubt to the point where you refuse to believe it's true, regardless of how much evidence is provided."

Do you feel you have provided much evidence Christianity is true, stiggy wiggy?
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
That you repeating "God tortures" hundreds of times without backing it up with scripture won't make it become scriptural. That should have been obvious.
I never said it was scriptural. I said that is - implicitly - what Christians believe. I.e., God, in his wrath, sends those who choose not to love him to suffer in hell to punish them.

I get you want to label that as "love", but to me that fulfils the definition of torture. That is, God tortures billions of people.

I have yet to see you tell me what your belief is with regards to how God punishes non-Christians, despite me asking you repeatedly, so I will have to assume that is is your belief too. Or something even worse?
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
Because it's not.
Well, duh!

Therefore He doesn't.
And yet you cannot say what he does do, can you?

Therefore you're full of hot air when you say He does.
Does he punish those who reject Jesus? Christianity says yes. Do you disagree? We both know you do not.

Does that punishment involve suffering? Christianity says yes. Do you disagree? We both know you do not.

Hence, God tortures the billions of people who reject Jesus. It is as simple as that.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
And yet you cannot say what he does do, can you?


He rescues us from our sin and hell.



Does he punish those who reject Jesus? Christianity says yes. Do you disagree? We both know you do not.

Does that punishment involve suffering? Christianity says yes. Do you disagree? We both know you do not.

Hence, God tortures the billions of people who reject Jesus. It is as simple as that.

If it's so simple, why are you floundering and flapping your fins like a freshly caught, unhooked fish on a dock, without any scriptural support to back up your mouthing off? I have no interest in what YOU of all people claim that "Christianity says."
 

The Pixie

Well-known member
I earlier said:
I have yet to see you tell me what your belief is with regards to how God punishes non-Christians, despite me asking you repeatedly, so I will have to assume that is is your belief too. Or something even worse?
He rescues us from our sin and hell.
So your position is that God will rescue non-Christians who reject Jesus?

Thanks for the good news!

How long until you decide that actually that is not really what you believe?

If it's so simple, why are you floundering and flapping your fins like a freshly caught, unhooked fish on a dock, without any scriptural support to back up your mouthing off? I have no interest in what YOU of all people claim that "Christianity says."
I am not floundering. I have never said it is scriptural.

We should get back to this after you have done your about face with regards to God rescuing non-Christians who reject Jesus.
 

stiggy wiggy

Well-known member
So your position is that God will rescue non-Christians who reject Jesus?

How the hell can He rescue people who refuse His rescue?

How long until you decide that actually that is not really what you believe?

How long till you decide that a giraffe is a reptile?

I am not floundering.

...... he sputters.

I have never said it is scriptural.

Then why should I care?
 
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