Interpret John 1:1 by John 1:1.

OldShepherd

Well-known member
No he did not. The creation of the earth coincides with in the beginning and not the beginning.
You evidently have not read John 17:5 and Gen 1:1
Genesis 1:1
1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.​
God creating the heavens and the earth was not a long drawn out affair. Just like everything else God spoke and it instantly came into being. Read the rest of gen 1.
So there was no interval of any kind during which anyone can say as you appear to be e.g. the earth was created precisely between "g" and "i" in the beg\/inning.
John 17:5
5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.​
The world i.e. the earth was the very beginning of creation Jesus was aware that He had glory with the father before that.
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
The evidence that Nathan was presented is more than sufficient to prove that Jesus is the Logos explicitly, implicitly, with both direct and circumstantial evidence. It is more than sufficient to prove that Jesus is the Logos in any court of law. It meets the highest standard in a court of law. . If Jesus Christ appeared to Nathan and stated that He is the Logos, Nathan would demand more evidence. This is not a sincere inquiry, but pure trolling. I believe we should not feed trolls.
 

101G

Well-known member
Not quite sure what your point is. He was determined to have the name Jesus before He was born.
Correction, he had the name before he was even conceived, not born, but conceived. scripture, Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb."

PICJAG, 101G.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Correction, he had the name before he was even conceived, not born, but conceived. scripture, Luke 2:21 "And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb."

PICJAG, 101G.
You are splitting hairs Mr. G.
 

Nathan P

Member
You evidently have not read John 17:5 and Gen 1:1
Genesis 1:1

1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
God creating the heavens and the earth was not a long drawn out affair. Just like everything else God spoke and it instantly came into being. Read the rest of gen 1.
So there was no interval of any kind during which anyone can say as you appear to be e.g. the earth was created precisely between "g" and "i" in the beg\/inning.
John 17:5

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
The world i.e. the earth was the very beginning of creation Jesus was aware that He had glory with the father before that.
I have read those and understand them precisely. Yes it was a long drawn out affair of billions of years according to the bible I can find the ones who know the original language and you can argue with those who know more about it than we do.. For one type in Reading Genesis One on Google and you can get a lot of the information there. Whether the earth was the very beginning of creation, the earth was created in the beginning. It is saying Jesus had glory in the beginning with the Father. That is still all you got is trying to make scriptures say what you want them to say?
 

Nathan P

Member
The evidence that Nathan was presented is more than sufficient to prove that Jesus is the Logos explicitly, implicitly, with both direct and circumstantial evidence. It is more than sufficient to prove that Jesus is the Logos in any court of law. It meets the highest standard in a court of law. . If Jesus Christ appeared to Nathan and stated that He is the Logos, Nathan would demand more evidence. This is not a sincere inquiry, but pure trolling. I believe we should not feed trolls.
You know it is not concrete evidence. The fact is nowhere does say Jesus was the Logos. Listen closely after the Word became flesh and only then is it clearly documented that there was one called Jesus.
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
You know it is not concrete evidence. The fact is nowhere does say Jesus was the Logos. Listen closely after the Word became flesh and only then is it clearly documented that there was one called Jesus.
"Concrete" is not the proper term. The antithesis of 'concrete' is 'abstract'. The proper terms would be explicit or direct. You have been shown sufficient circumstantial evidence that Jesus is the Logos. Sufficient that if this was taken to court it would pass as truth in a court of law. Note it would be established as truth in a secular arena. But some how that is not good enough for you. Sorry you don't get to set the height of the bar that X has to pass to be considered true.
What you are doing is simple trolleying. You know that there does not exist any explicit or direct evidence that states Jesus is the Logos so that is what you demand as proof, knowing well that there is sufficient circumstantial evidence proving the statement true.
Similar to arguing that George Washington did not cross the Delaware River because there exist no photo of him doing so.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
I have read those and understand them precisely. Yes it was a long drawn out affair of billions of years according to the bible I can find the ones who know the original language and you can argue with those who know more about it than we do.. For one type in Reading Genesis One on Google and you can get a lot of the information there. Whether the earth was the very beginning of creation, the earth was created in the beginning. It is saying Jesus had glory in the beginning with the Father. That is still all you got is trying to make scriptures say what you want them to say?
Heterodox, unscriptural rubbish. Please show me a verse or verses which clearly state that creation was "a long drawn out affair of billions of year?" My Bible says that over the period of seven days the world and everything that existed on it were created. Gen 1:1 tells us precisely what was created first "the heavens and the earth" Jesus said "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14
14 The Word [acting on Himself]* became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
* [The tense of the Greek word means the subject i.e. Jesus performs the action]
John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
 

Nathan P

Member
Heterodox, unscriptural rubbish. Please show me a verse or verses which clearly state that creation was "a long drawn out affair of billions of year?" My Bible says that over the period of seven days the world and everything that existed on it were created. Gen 1:1 tells us precisely what was created first "the heavens and the earth" Jesus said "O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was."
John 1:1-2
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
John 1:14
14 The Word [acting on Himself]* became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
* [The tense of the Greek word means the subject i.e. Jesus performs the action]
John 1:18
18 No one has ever seen God, but the one and only Son, who is himself God and is in closest relationship with the Father, has made him known.
Because read the account of the fourth day and that is when he put the luminaries in the expanse to shine upon the earth and when days, seasons and years started. Meaning days 1-4 could not have been 24 hour days and instead are Gods days. How long a day is to God can be an untold amount of time. And we have people who think the days were 24 hours long.
 

Nathan P

Member
"Concrete" is not the proper term. The antithesis of 'concrete' is 'abstract'. The proper terms would be explicit or direct. You have been shown sufficient circumstantial evidence that Jesus is the Logos. Sufficient that if this was taken to court it would pass as truth in a court of law. Note it would be established as truth in a secular arena. But some how that is not good enough for you. Sorry you don't get to set the height of the bar that X has to pass to be considered true.
What you are doing is simple trolleying. You know that there does not exist any explicit or direct evidence that states Jesus is the Logos so that is what you demand as proof, knowing well that there is sufficient circumstantial evidence proving the statement true.
Similar to arguing that George Washington did not cross the Delaware River because there exist no photo of him doing so.
You are saying it pain and simple that there is no explicit or direct evidence that Jesus is the Logos. And because that evidence does not exist I am supposed to accept circumstantial evidence as proof that Jesus is the Logos? It does not work that way that I could not present circumstantial evidence as a fact, but I am supposed to accept circumstantial evidence from you all as a fact?
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
You are saying it pain and simple that there is no explicit or direct evidence that Jesus is the Logos. And because that evidence does not exist I am supposed to accept circumstantial evidence as proof that Jesus is the Logos? It does not work that way that I could not present circumstantial evidence as a fact, but I am supposed to accept circumstantial evidence from you all as a fact?
If you don't accept circumstantial evidence that points to one conclusion, Jesus is the Logos, that is your problem. That's your free will choice. Unlike the rest of America which accepts circumstantial evidence as proof that X exists. You're free to set the bar as high as you want for whatever you want to accept, but you are not free to set the bar for anyone else. If you don't believe Jesus is the Logos that fine with me.
God bless
 

Towerwatchman

Active member
Because read the account of the fourth day and that is when he put the luminaries in the expanse to shine upon the earth and when days, seasons and years started. Meaning days 1-4 could not have been 24 hour days and instead are Gods days. How long a day is to God can be an untold amount of time. And we have people who think the days were 24 hours long.
In Genesis 1 when the days are counted we see something interesting. The first day is cardinal ( one day), 2nd to the 7th day is ordinal.(second, third...day). It reads evening and morning one day. Moses under the inspiration of God Defined what a day is one evening one morning. Nothing in the narrative suggests that they are God's days,

Follow your logic and your high standard. If it doesn't say explicitly that they are God's days then it's not. If it says explicitly it's one day one evening one morning =24hr. Dat. then it's one day. Notice the duplicity and hypocrisy you practice.
 
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