Is all this true?

I am surprised you didn't know. That said, you're welcome.
I'm a General Contractor and don't pretend to be a scriptorian... and my knowledge of all the different words designations is obviously limited.
Why would you be surprised?

Can we suss out what you mean using Mormon resources below and the difference between what Christianity claims being saved is and what Mormonism teaches:
Well this is the Mormon Forum and we are limited by the rules as to how we communicate our issues with Christians... we are asked not to debate Christian Doctrine, that should go to the correct Forum for discussion.



Salvation from Physical Death. All people eventually die. But through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected—saved from physical death. Paul testified, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). In this sense, everyone is saved, regardless of choices made during this life. This is a free gift from the Savior to all human beings.

Salvation from Sin. To be cleansed from sin through the Savior’s Atonement, an individual must exercise faith in Jesus Christ, repent, be baptized, and receive the gift of the Holy Ghost (see Acts 2:37–38). Those who have been baptized and have received the Holy Ghost through the proper priesthood authority have been conditionally saved from sin. In this sense, salvation is conditional, depending on an individual’s continuing in faithfulness, or enduring to the end in keeping the commandments of God (see 2 Peter 2:20–22).

These iterations indicate we have a chasm between what the Bible teaches and what Mormonism teaches on what salvation is. Agreed?

Totally agree...
The key being "celestial kingdom" which I'm sure you alluded to when you refenced Smiths changing the words from Matthew (many mansions).

Yep, or as I stated it would be nice to have all the original manuscripts... I understand that Greek was used in preference of Hebrew, but not all the original are Greek...
Do you have the original "reformed egyptian" for the BoM? With all due respect your argument is rather feckless. There are thousands and thousands of original manuscripts for the Bible Richard in Hebrew and Koine Greek. There are zero original manuscripts for the BoM.

That would be a great topic in a different OP

I was addressing Smith's change of many mansions to kingdoms; perhaps you can expound on what you are trying to clarify.
The word has never been finalized, you can check for your self by just googling the word, much discussion and differences are available for your own research.
 
You believe you are saved by grace, after all you can do, which I presume includes what you are alluding to quoting these verses.

That's a good catch--as it's the scriptures themselves which testify God extends His grace to them which obey Him:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

I countered with verses that you don't seem to understand.

How are you claiming you have verses which counter the Biblical testimony?

That said:

Matthew 19:16-19; this is again the young ruler seeking to be recognized for his "righteousness" in the claim he had followed all the commandments which we know is not possible. The only One who was able to follow the commandments, perfectly, was He who wrote them. Jesus Christ.

That said--how does that render what God testified to--as false?

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

Your claim does nothing to annul what is testified to.

1 John 2:3-4 is clear that if we know Jesus we will keep His commandments, as I explained in my last post.

In addition to that--the scriptures testify those who claim to know God, and don't keep His commandments--are liars:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That connects eternal life with keeping the commandments.

The difference being to know Him is not just to recognize Him. How do we know Him? By repenting of our sin, accepting Him as Lord,

To know Him is connected to keeping His commandments:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

That defies the theology proffered here by the critics.

Revelation 22:14; Blessed are those who do His commandments: Doing His commandments does not earn us eternal life, but it is evidence that we have been granted eternal life.

A connection is made between those who keep His commandments--and the tree of life:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

Again--anathema to the theology preached here by the critics.

Very friendly to LDS theology.

Besides, there is an inherent blessing in doing His commandments, because they are good and right for us.

And that blessing is eternal life:

Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
 
That's a good catch--as it's the scriptures themselves which testify God extends His grace to them which obey Him:
Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
How are you claiming you have verses which counter the Biblical testimony?
Because you don't understand what the Bible is teaching here. Your understanding is based solely on what the Mormon church teaches and the Bible shaped to fit that narrative. That is what I mean.
That said--how does that render what God testified to--as false?
Matthew 19:16-19---King James Version
16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
18 He saith unto him, Which? Jesus said, Thou shalt do no murder, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness,
19 Honour thy father and thy mother: and, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
Your claim does nothing to annul what is testified to.
In addition to that--the scriptures testify those who claim to know God, and don't keep His commandments--are liars:
I've explained this to you before but let me try it this way: following His commandments does not make one a follower of the Way just as not following His commandments does not make one a follower of the Way. What makes us a follower of the Way is this:
Romans 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."
Acts 4:12 12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”
John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

And yet this is what your church teaches:

Too many links. Removed

Do you see the difference?
1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
That connects eternal life with keeping the commandments.
You are still demanding a works based salvation while at the same time denying we are saved by works. Which is it?
And I'm not annulling the Bible, the Bible verses I offered are testifying we are saved by Grace, through faith and not of works. Not tied to whether we follow the commandments. Certainly, we should, we will, if we follow God, but to require following the commandments creates a merit-based salvation (saved by grace after all we can do). We are to depend upon God's unmerited favor alone, through faith. When we do good works, follow the commandments, those are a testimony to God's grace and that we are new creations.
To know Him is connected to keeping His commandments:
1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
When we know Jesus our desire will be to follow His commandments. Before we knew Him we didn't. I don't know why that's so hard for you to understand.
That defies the theology proffered here by the critics.
No, that's your claim but hardly reality.
A connection is made between those who keep His commandments--and the tree of life:
Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Again--anathema to the theology preached here by the critics.
Again, that's your claim but hardly reality. I've mentioned your eisegeting verses to make your theology is not using the Bible properly. But no surprise, for to not do so you are unable to support your Mormon faith.
Very friendly to LDS theology.
From how you present it, yes. That does not make it Biblical nor true.
And that blessing is eternal life:
Please explain how you get eternal life as a Mormon?

P.s. I shortened the spacing to save space.
 
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Please explain how you get eternal life as a Mormon?

P.s. I shortened the spacing to save space.
Be obedient, keep your covenants, come fully unto Christ (Testifying you know that Jesus is the Christ) by way of the Holy Ghost.
And finally, endure to the end... simplified to keep you from wavering in boredom..
 
Because you don't understand what the Bible is teaching here.

Lastdays--it isn't rocket science:

Revelation 22:14---King James Version
14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
How are you claiming you have verses which counter the Biblical testimony?

That connects keeping the commandments with the tree of life. Very friendly to LDS theology.

Your understanding is based solely on what the Mormon church teaches and the Bible shaped to fit that narrative.

And the Bible fits that narrative well:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

I've explained this to you before but let me try it this way: following His commandments does not make one a follower of the Way...

Of course it does. If it's His commandments--who else would one be following, except those who keep His commandments?

John 14:21-23---King James Version
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
22 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?
23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.

just as not following His commandments does not make one a follower of the Way. What makes us a follower of the Way is this:
Romans 10:9 "If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved."

Along with that:

Luke 6:46---King James Version
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?

Acts 4:12 12 "Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

That's why His church is called after His name:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints."

What is the name of your church?

John 14:6 6 Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

And I believe this comports to that verse well:

1 John 2:3-4---King James Version
3 And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

You are still demanding a works based salvation while at the same time denying we are saved by works. Which is it?

First--is this an example of "works based salvation"?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

And I'm not annulling the Bible, the Bible verses I offered are testifying we are saved by Grace, through faith and not of works.

How does that annul the testimony of the scriptures--which witnesses God extends His grace to them which obey Him?

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 
Earned?

(see 2 Ne. 25:23). We don’t earn salvation. Heavenly Father and the Savior will bless us with eternal life, through Their grace, if we do our part. They have asked us to have faith in Jesus Christ, repent throughout our lives, be baptized and receive other ordinances, and faithfully endure to the end. If we do that, we are promised eternal life through the grace of God.”

"if we do our part", yeah, your part is but filthy rags before Him. Without His Spirit as the motivating catalyst for your works, you are merely trying to impress yourself, not God. And since the LDS Jesus doesn't really exist, that leaves LDS folks in a bit of a pickle.
 
“Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation,

Can you show me the source for the above which you inserted before the scripture... thx.

Well we don't really know much about the creation of spirits in the pre-existence nor afterwards... if you can find more detail that would be a great discussion... thx...
The stuff in red is from your church's online Bible dictionary, under the heading "Grace." It has been quoted on here before.
 
"if we do our part", yeah, your part is but filthy rags before Him.

That may be true for the Mosaic Law--but not the gospel of Jesus Christ:

1 John 3:7---King James Version
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

Without His Spirit as the motivating catalyst for your works, you are merely trying to impress yourself, not God.

How does that cover up or cancel out the testimony of the scriptures?

Acts 5:31-32---King James Version
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
 
Paul tells us in the sermon at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25, Stephen echoes this in ch 7 of the same book) but rather that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in us; that is, that WE are His temples (1 Cor. 3:16-17).
 
Paul tells us in the sermon at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25, Stephen echoes this in ch 7 of the same book) but rather that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in us; that is, that WE are His temples (1 Cor. 3:16-17).

How does any of that preclude the existence of the temple here, the servants dressed in white, or that they serve God in the temple?

Revelation 11:1-2--King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
 
How does any of that preclude the existence of the temple here, the servants dressed in white, or that they serve God in the temple?

Revelation 11:1-2--King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.
You are quoting the apocalyptic texts, something yet to happen, and has nothing to do with what Mormons do in their man-built "temples" in their man-made white robes and secret underoos.
 
You are quoting the apocalyptic texts,

Where I live--we call it the Bible:

Revelation 11:1-2--King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

something yet to happen,

The LDS have a temple with servants dressed in white--serving God. We don't have to wait for it to happen.

and has nothing to do with what Mormons do in their man-built "temples"

All the temples of God have been "man-built". No exceptions. And the LDS have a temple--where the servants wear white. That has something to do with what the scriptures above reveal.

in their man-made white robes and secret underoos.

LOL!!! Of course the clothing is man-made. Where do we find any clothing the servants of God wear in His temple--which aren't man-made?

But you have none of those things--so don't worry about them. Leave that to those who do possess the temple, the white clothing, the servants serving in the temple, etc.
 
Where I live--we call it the Bible:

Revelation 11:1-2--King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.



The LDS have a temple with servants dressed in white--serving God. We don't have to wait for it to happen.



All the temples of God have been "man-built". No exceptions. And the LDS have a temple--where the servants wear white. That has something to do with what the scriptures above reveal.



LOL!!! Of course the clothing is man-made. Where do we find any clothing the servants of God wear in His temple--which aren't man-made?

But you have none of those things--so don't worry about them. Leave that to those who do possess the temple, the white clothing, the servants serving in the temple, etc.
I'll repeat my earlier reply.

Paul tells us in the sermon at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25, Stephen echoes this in ch 7 of the same book) but rather that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in us; that is, that WE are His temples (1 Cor. 3:16-17).

As a follower of the Way we don't need anything Mormonism offers. WE are His temples. Your buildings and clothing are the works of man so you keep doing the worthless works of man.
 
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I'll repeat my earlier reply.

Paul tells us in the sermon at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25, Stephen echoes this in ch 7 of the same book)

How does that claim somehow cover up or cancel out the testimony of the scriptures here?

Revelation 11:1-2--King James Version
1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

Whether you, or anyone else--believes the Lord dwells there--has nothing to do with the physical reality of the temple--or that there were those who were dressed in white--serving God there. T

That fits the description of the LDS temple well. Again--you don't have a temple such as that in your church--so you won't have to fret about that.

but rather that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in us; that is, that WE are His temples (1 Cor. 3:16-17).

And that precludes the existence of the temple description found in Revelation--how?

As a follower of the Way we don't need anything Mormonism offers. WE are His temples. Your buildings and clothing are the works of man so you keep doing the worthless works of man.

What is your evidence those dressed in white in Rev7, serving God--were doing the "works of man"?

Rev7 patterns the LDS temple--which you don't have, so I'm not sure why you concern yourself with it.

The LDS do--they have a temple which fits the description of Rev7. Let them handle that. God doesn't work among men according to your beliefs, but according to His Revelation.

Acts 5:40-42---King James Version
40 And to him they agreed: and when they had called the apostles, and beaten them, they commanded that they should not speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
41 And they departed from the presence of the council, rejoicing that they were counted worthy to suffer shame for his name.
42 And daily in the temple, and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ.
 
Paul tells us in the sermon at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25, Stephen echoes this in ch 7 of the same book) but rather that the Holy Spirit of God dwells in us; that is, that WE are His temples (1 Cor. 3:16-17).
at Mars Hill that the Lord does not dwell in houses built by hands (Acts 17:24-25,


In the scripture cited above, Paul is addressing Greeks (the Athenians) and their temple "to an unknown god". Paul's point is that God does not dwell solely in a physical object, like the temple of Athena at Athens (see Acts 7:48). This is not to say that there is no temple where the true God can be worshiped—Paul respected the temple and even underwent ritual purification after one of his missionary journeys (REF). The early Christians also continued to show great reverence to the Jerusalem temple. Rather, Paul argued that God is the God of the whole world and can be worshiped at all times and at all places.

An analysis of the Greek text also supports this view, since the term, "made with hands" likely refers to idolatrous worship.

The expression "made with hands" is defined as follows: in

4654 χειροποίητοςχειροποίητος,“made by hands,” in the [Septuagint] applied only to idols, but in the NT used of material temples (Acts 7:48, 17:24): cf. Orac. Sib. xiv. 62 ναῶν ἱδρύματα χειροποιήτων. In the travel-letter, P Lond 8544 (i/ii A.D.) (=111. p. 205, Selections, p. 70), the writer remarks that many go by ship ἵνα τὰς χει]ropοι]ήτους τέ]χνας ἱστορήσωσι, “in order that they may visit works of art made by hands,” on the banks of the Nile. [2]
The term appears, in the same form, in Acts 7:48:

ἀλλ᾽ οὐχ ὁ ὕψιστος ἐν χειροποιήτοις κατοικεῖ, καθὼς ὁ προφήτης λέγει· (BGT)
The NRSV reads:


Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made with human hands; as the prophet says, (Act 7:48 NRS)

 
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