IS CHRIST’S RETURN “IMMINENT”?

Timtofly

Member
It has been imminent for 1990 years. Yes it is part of the church dispensation.

Do you know Christians who prefer the Second Coming to always be 1000 years in the future?
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
It has been imminent for 1990 years. Yes it is part of the church dispensation.

Do you know Christians who prefer the Second Coming to always be 1000 years in the future?

How do some prophecies have to be fulfilled before Christ comes, and yet Dispensationalists hold to the imminent return of Christ?
 

Arkycharlie

Active member
How do some prophecies have to be fulfilled before Christ comes, and yet Dispensationalists hold to the imminent return of Christ?
I have labeled myself a dispensationalist for over 40 years. However, as I have stated elsewhere in this forum, traditional dispensational eschatology is a house of cards as a result of many false presuppositions. One of those faulty presuppositions is the so-called doctrine of "imminence" which declares that no prophesied events must be fulfilled before the pretribulation rapture. I am unalterably pretrib but "imminence" is plainly refuted in 2 Thessalonians 2:

1 Now we ask you, brothers and sisters, regarding the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, 2 that you not be quickly shaken from your composure or be disturbed either by a spirit, or a message, or a letter as if from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 No one is to deceive you in any way! For it will not come unless the apostasy comes FIRST, and the man of lawlessness is REVEALED, the son of destruction, 4 who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God.​

My fellow Dispensationalists are forced to twist the meaning of this passage as a result of their inaccurate interpretation of Daniel’s prophecy of the Seventy Weeks. They view the entire seventieth week as a yet future event when, in fact, the first half was fulfilled in our Lord’s 3 ½ year earthly ministry leaving only the last half to be fulfilled in the great tribulation. As a point of information, the NASB translation of verse 2 above has a mistranslation. The King James rightly translates the verse as “the Day of Christ”. The Day of the LORD and the Day of Christ are two entirely different events separated by 1000 years. I could go on but see nothing to be gained.
 

Timtofly

Member
How do some prophecies have to be fulfilled before Christ comes, and yet Dispensationalists hold to the imminent return of Christ?
The New Testament teaches the soon (imminent) Second Coming. No one taught it would be in 1900 years.

The Day of the Lord, or Day with the Lord is a 1000 year time period. 2 Peter 3. In 2030 it will be two Days since the Cross. The Fall, when Adam disobeyed God, was 4000 years or 4 Days prior to the Cross. We have had almost 6 Days of Adam's labor punishment. The next millennium will be the actual Day with the Lord.

It seems Adam was 30 years in the Garden, thus 4000 years from when the Garden was created to the change in the countdown from BC to AD. Seth was born 100 years after Adam was banned from the Garden. 130 years, after Adam was placed in the Garden.
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
The New Testament teaches the soon (imminent) Second Coming. No one taught it would be in 1900 years.

The Day of the Lord, or Day with the Lord is a 1000 year time period. 2 Peter 3. In 2030 it will be two Days since the Cross. The Fall, when Adam disobeyed God, was 4000 years or 4 Days prior to the Cross. We have had almost 6 Days of Adam's labor punishment. The next millennium will be the actual Day with the Lord.

It seems Adam was 30 years in the Garden, thus 4000 years from when the Garden was created to the change in the countdown from BC to AD. Seth was born 100 years after Adam was banned from the Garden. 130 years, after Adam was placed in the Garden.

That's interesting.

Since I was a Dispensationalist for a lengthy time, I know what I am saying next is true.
Dispensationalists keep moving the goal posts. We went from 1988, to 1995, to 2000, to 2010, to 2017, to who knows when?
I am surprised that 2048 has started being espoused... You know, 100 years after the restarting of Israel...

I am not trying to pick on you... It is the Dispensational mindset that I have issue with... Dispensationalists are so stuck to their paradigm that they keep coming up with new target dates when the last one expired...
 

Timtofly

Member
That's interesting.

Since I was a Dispensationalist for a lengthy time, I know what I am saying next is true.
Dispensationalists keep moving the goal posts. We went from 1988, to 1995, to 2000, to 2010, to 2017, to who knows when?
I am surprised that 2048 has started being espoused... You know, 100 years after the restarting of Israel...

I am not trying to pick on you... It is the Dispensational mindset that I have issue with... Dispensationalists are so stuck to their paradigm that they keep coming up with new target dates when the last one expired...
Well the Bible has not changed in 1900 years. Any one reading Moses in both Genesis and Exodus could have figured these things out. I am not pushing dispensationalism on any one any more than Paul who spoke of dispensations.

The fact is; Satan has been deceiving the world for almost 2500 years, so was that part of not understanding?

God said things would be revealed at the end. Do you think some just wanted to make a name for themselves, or honestly thought they "had something"? Amil, postmil seem to be in the same boat, thinking they have the direct answer from God as well. They just do not have to commit to anything, because when it does happen, if they are wrong, who cares at that point?
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
God said things would be revealed at the end. Do you think some just wanted to make a name for themselves, or honestly thought they "had something"? Amil, postmil seem to be in the same boat, thinking they have the direct answer from God as well. They just do not have to commit to anything, because when it does happen, if they are wrong, who cares at that point?

Just an interesting note. In Daniel, things were covered up. Then, in Revelation came the great revealing...
 

Timtofly

Member
So, the Last Days have lasted about 720,000 days to date...
Only if you conflate the last days of the OT to the last days of the NT.

An imminent return does not make every day the last day. Only the literal last days are the last days. No one was told it would have any length. So no, last days do not have a set number at all.

Do you think the last days of the OT were the finite length of 483 years or depending on a calender x amount of days?

Being fixated on the last days and their length would not be healthy for any one, I would think.
 
C

Chuckz

Guest
How do some prophecies have to be fulfilled before Christ comes, and yet Dispensationalists hold to the imminent return of Christ?

Who says they have to be fulfilled before Jesus Christ comes? There are two comings. One is the rapture and one is when Jesus returns on a white horse with his saints.

Acts 1:7 ESV​

He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons that the Father has fixed by his own authority.

He also says his followers should know the times and seasons so go figure:

Matthew 16:2 He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red.
Matthew 16:3 And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

Ever here of the saying?:

"Red sky at night, sailor's delight. Red sky in morning, sailor's warning"​


There are at least four dispensations in the Bible for people who aren't dispensationalists. Before the fall, after the fall, before the cross and after the cross. Even if you are not a dispensationalist, you can believe in those things.


 

SteveB

Well-known member
1. “Therefore, stay awake, for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Matthew 24:42-44


2. “The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know.” Matthew 24:50


3. “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.” Matthew 25:13


4. “But concerning that day or that hour, no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. Be on guard, keep awake. For you do not know when the time will come. It is like a man going on a journey, when he leaves home and puts his servants in charge, each with his work, and commands the doorkeeper to stay awake. Therefore stay awake – for you do not know when the master of the house will come, in the evening or at midnight, or when the rooster crows, or in the morning – lest he come suddenly and find you asleep. And what I say to you I say to all: Stay awake.” Mark 13:32-37


5. “You must also be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.” Luke 12:40


6. “For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior, the Lord Jesus Christ.” Philippians 3:20 (NASB)


7. “For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.” 1 Thessalonians 5:2


8. “And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.” Hebrews 10:24-25


9. “Be patient, therefore, brothers, until the coming of the Lord. See how the farmer waits for the precious fruit of the earth, being patient about it, until it receives the early and late rains. You also, be patient. Establish your hearts, for the coming of the Lord is at hand. Do not grumble against one another, brothers, so that you may not be judged; behold, the Judge is standing at the door.” James 5:7-9


10. “The end of all things is at hand.” 1 Peter 4:7


11. “But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and all the works done on it will be exposed.” 2 Peter 3:10


12. “Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear, and who keep what is written in it, for the time is near.” Revelation 1:3


13. “And behold, I am coming soon.” Revelation 22:7


14. “Behold, I am coming soon, bringing my recompense with me, to repay each one for what he has done.” Revelation 22:12


15. “He who testifies to these things says, ‘Surely I am coming soon.’ Amen. Come, Lord Jesus!” Revelation 22:20
 

jamesh

Active member
Well the Bible has not changed in 1900 years. Any one reading Moses in both Genesis and Exodus could have figured these things out. I am not pushing dispensationalism on any one any more than Paul who spoke of dispensations.

The fact is; Satan has been deceiving the world for almost 2500 years, so was that part of not understanding?

God said things would be revealed at the end. Do you think some just wanted to make a name for themselves, or honestly thought they "had something"? Amil, postmil seem to be in the same boat, thinking they have the direct answer from God as well. They just do not have to commit to anything, because when it does happen, if they are wrong, who cares at that point?
The definition of "imminent" is "ready to take place, happening soon. Or likely to happen at any moment, impending. So I would say if one is pre-trib the second coming would not be imminent because the so-called rapture has to take place first.

So, when someone quotes verses like SteveB above, post #14, how does one know if the verses are referring to the rapture or the second coming? Or to put this another way, which is more "imminent" the rapture or the second coming?

In Him,
herman
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
The definition of "imminent" is "ready to take place, happening soon. Or likely to happen at any moment, impending. So I would say if one is pre-trib the second coming would not be imminent because the so-called rapture has to take place first.

So, when someone quotes verses like SteveB above, post #14, how does one know if the verses are referring to the rapture or the second coming? Or to put this another way, which is more "imminent" the rapture or the second coming?

In Him,
herman

Or as a Partial Pret, it all happened already... Soon to take place, At the Door, this Generation, Behold I'm coming quickly... And he was speaking to "You" of "this generation"...
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
The definition of "imminent" is "ready to take place, happening soon. Or likely to happen at any moment, impending. So I would say if one is pre-trib the second coming would not be imminent because the so-called rapture has to take place first.

So, when someone quotes verses like SteveB above, post #14, how does one know if the verses are referring to the rapture or the second coming? Or to put this another way, which is more "imminent" the rapture or the second coming?

In Him,
herman

BTW Herman, I like to speak of Partial Preterism... But that leads to a Post Millennial View that I have. We are actually a stones throw away from each other in many respects.
 

jamesh

Active member
Or as a Partial Pret, it all happened already... Soon to take place, At the Door, this Generation, Behold I'm coming quickly... And he was speaking to "You" of "this generation"...
Hey Joe! Or what does, "this generation" refer to at Hebrews 3:10? "Therefore I was angry with this generation, And said, "They always go astray in their heart; and they did not know My ways;" I'm convinced that at Matthew 24 that "this generation" does not explicitly refer to the disciples and only their contemporaries when Jesus addressed the question posed at Matthew 24:3.

"And as He was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, "Tell us, when will these things be, and what will be the sign of Your coming, AND THE END OF THE AGE/WORLD." Obviously the world did not end at that time and it still has not ended. Here is something I learned many many years ago.

"GOD ONLY HAS TO SPEAK ONCE FOR IT TO BE THE TRUTH."

In Him
herman
 

Yodas_Prodigy

Active member
The Age ended... Jews divide time in two - Before Messiah and After Messiah... The Age Before Messiah ended. Additionally, the Word Generation is used about 28 times in Matthew, Mark, and Luke. Each time he used it, Jesus was speaking to and about his contemporaries...
 

Timtofly

Member
The definition of "imminent" is "ready to take place, happening soon. Or likely to happen at any moment, impending. So I would say if one is pre-trib the second coming would not be imminent because the so-called rapture has to take place first.

So, when someone quotes verses like SteveB above, post #14, how does one know if the verses are referring to the rapture or the second coming? Or to put this another way, which is more "imminent" the rapture or the second coming?

In Him,
herman
The Second Coming is the rapture. The church goes to Paradise. God on the throne and the Lamb remain on earth for the final harvest. The sheep and the goats, the tares and the wheat. Then the 7th Trumpet sounds the end. Sin is finished. Death and decay are finished. The only thing left during the 1000 years is the choice to rebel and sent instantly to Death, or obey Christ. People will still be born on earth, and fill up the earth. Without a sin nature, more will live longer and have more offspring. There will not be any issues with overpopulation.
 
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