Is Esau in hell right now?

Calvinists: how certain are you that Esau is in hell right now?

Can you prove biblically that he must be in hell? Provide scripture references.

As you do so, hopefully you will see that the Calvinist understanding of Romans 9 brings a lot of assumptions to the text.
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
Calvinists: how certain are you that Esau is in hell right now?

Can you prove biblically that he must be in hell? Provide scripture references.

As you do so, hopefully you will see that the Calvinist understanding of Romans 9 brings a lot of assumptions to the text.
This should be an interesting discussion. It reminds me of the Gospel Tract I have planned to write next; this must be a Sign. My Gospel Tract will liken Jacob buying Esau's inheritance as a Type for Christ obtaining Adam's inheritance...

This Thread should be very beneficial in helping me put my thoughts together...

I don't think you'll find too many Calvinists who will say they are sure Esau is in Hell...
 

TomFL

Well-known member
Calvinists: how certain are you that Esau is in hell right now?

Can you prove biblically that he must be in hell? Provide scripture references.

As you do so, hopefully you will see that the Calvinist understanding of Romans 9 brings a lot of assumptions to the text.
There is no evidence at all of That
 

civic

Well-known member
Esau’s descendants, the Edomites(also called Idumeans), never got along with Jacob’s descendants, the Israelites. Edom regularly opposed and fought against Israel. A big part of the problem was that the Edomites were pagans and the Israelites followed God. The prophets Jeremiah and Obadiah said God would “bring disaster on Esau” (Jeremiah 49:8) and that the Edomites would be eventually destroyed (Obadiah 1:18).

The writer of Hebrews uses Esau as a negative example of godlessness: “See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done” (Hebrews 12:16–17). This passage also shows how our actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are permanent, even after we have seen the folly of our ways.

The fact that Esau was the older brother, yet Jacob received the birthright, carries theological significance. Esau’s mother had been told before she gave birth to twins that “the older will serve the younger” (Genesis 25:23). So God’s choice—His election—was at work before either of the twins had done anything, good or bad. Paul uses this story to show that we are saved “not by works but by him who calls” (Romans 9:12). God’s sovereignty and election cannot be thwarted: “Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’ . . . It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy” (verses 13 and 16, cf. Malachi 1:2–3).got?

Hebrews 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. KJV
that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. NASB
that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. ESV
Or lest a man be found among you as a fornicator, or debauched, like Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright. Aramaic

You be the judge !

hope this helps !!!
 
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civic

Well-known member
Calvinists: how certain are you that Esau is in hell right now?

Can you prove biblically that he must be in hell? Provide scripture references.

As you do so, hopefully you will see that the Calvinist understanding of Romans 9 brings a lot of assumptions to the text.
Here is Gill

Lest there be any fornicator or profane person,.... The first of these is guilty of a sin against the second table of the law, as well as against his own body; and which is opposed to the holiness the apostle had before exhorted to; such who are guilty of it, are not to be continued in the communion of the church; and it is a sin, which, lived in not repented of, excludes from the kingdom of heaven: the latter is one who is a transgressor of the first table of the law; who is an idolater, a swearer, a despiser of public worship and ordinances, and who behaves irreverently in divine service, and mocks at the future state, as Esau; to whom both these characters seem to belong: and this agrees with what the Jews say concerning him: they have a tradition (w), that he committed five transgressions on the day he came out of the field weary.

"He committed idolatry: he shed innocent blood; and lay with a virgin betrothed; and denied the life of the world to come (or a future state); and despised his birthright.''

It is elsewhere (x) a little differently expressed.

"Esau, the wicked, committed five transgressions on that day: he lay with a virgin betrothed; and killed a person; and denied the resurrection of the dead; and denied the root, or foundation, (i.e. that there is a God,) and despised his birthright; and besides, he desired his father's death, and sought to slay his brother.''

It is common for them to say of him, that he was an ungodly man; and particularly, that he was a murderer, a robber, "and an adulterer" ; and that he has no part in the world to come (z): who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright; the account of which is in Genesis 25:29 this includes all the privileges which he had a right unto by being the firstborn; as a peculiar blessing from his father; a double portion of goods; and dominion over his brethren: and it is commonly said by the Jews, that the priesthood belonged to the firstborn, before the Levitical dispensation; and that for this reason, Jacob coveted the birthright (a), Esau being a wicked man, and unfit for it. The birthright was reckoned sacred; it was typical of the primogeniture of Christ; of the adoption of saints, and of the heavenly inheritance belonging thereunto; all which were despised by Esau: and so the Jewish paraphrases (b) interpret the contempt of his birthright, a despising of his part in the world to come, and a denial of the resurrection of the dead: and his contempt of it was shown in his selling it; and this was aggravated by his selling it for "one morsel of meat"; which was bread, and pottage of lentiles, Genesis 25:34. The Jewish writers speak of this bargain and sale much in the same language as the apostle here does; they say (c) of him, this is the man that sold his birthright , "for a morsel of bread"; and apply to him the passage in Proverbs 28:21 "for a piece of bread that man will transgress".
 

civic

Well-known member
I see a direct correlation between judas and Esau in scripture and the warning passages in Hebrews apply directly to them as perfect examples. The appetite of the flesh - one gave up his birthright for a meal and the other for 30 pieces of silver. Both are wicked, profane and sold their own sold for their sinful desires and dishonored God.
 

civic

Well-known member
Calvinists: how certain are you that Esau is in hell right now?

Can you prove biblically that he must be in hell? Provide scripture references.

As you do so, hopefully you will see that the Calvinist understanding of Romans 9 brings a lot of assumptions to the text.
I see everyone is chiming in lol...........................
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I see a direct correlation between judas and Esau in scripture and the warning passages in Hebrews apply directly to them as perfect examples. The appetite of the flesh - one gave up his birthright for a meal and the other for 30 pieces of silver. Both are wicked, profane and sold their own sold for their sinful desires and dishonored God.
If Esau and Jacob are Types for Adam and Jesus, and for Federal Headship; do you think it's possible that Esau could be Saved? Due to the reconciliation of the two brothers? Adam was Reconciled to Christ. If Esau couldn't be Saved, do you agree they are still a Type for Federal Headship?

<clipped> Another example is with Esau and Jacob. When Esau sold his birthright to Jacob all of his descendants from the consequences of that as they were excluded from the blessing of the promise to Abraham and to Isaac. And again, the promise to Abraham is a promise of blessing to a representative head. <clipped> the way both are true is that the sin nature is passed on genetically and Adam’s original sin on the basis of Adam’s federal headship is then imputed to that sin nature. <clipped> http://www.divineviewpoint.com/sane/dbm/setup/Genesis/Gen032.htm
 

civic

Well-known member
If Esau and Jacob are Types for Adam and Jesus, and for Federal Headship; do you think it's possible that Esau could be Saved? Due to the reconciliation of the two brothers? Adam was Reconciled to Christ. If Esau couldn't be Saved, do you agree they are still a Type for Federal Headship?
I'm sure its possible but not probable IMHO as the scriptures above paint a dark picture regarding Esau's character. He is referred to as ungodly, profane, unholy not characteristic descriptions of the redeemed.

I guess it depends ones starting point, vantage point or perspective on how they approach the problems regarding esau and how scripture describes him when talking about his nature and character.

Analogies or comparisons are good but the question is can we take them to far ?

Just some food for thought and as we know we all have presuppositions that we read scripture with on issues like in this thread.

hope this helps !!!
 

ReverendRV

Well-known member
I'm sure its possible but not probable IMHO as the scriptures above paint a dark picture regarding Esau's character. He is referred to as ungodly, profane, unholy not characteristic descriptions of the redeemed.

I guess it depends ones starting point, vantage point or perspective on how they approach the problems regarding esau and how scripture describes him when talking about his nature and character.

Analogies or comparisons are good but the question is can we take them to far ?

Just some food for thought and as we know we all have presuppositions that we read scripture with on issues like in this thread.

hope this helps !!!
I agree; if I had to bet, I'd say he wasn't Saved...

But remember Gadgeteer; he was finally done in by not understanding how such a scoundrel as 'Righteous Lot' could ever be Saved. But God Hated Esau; and God does not change, thus we are not consumed!

The antithesis of this is that since God does not change, the Hated are consumed...
 

Beloved Daughter

Well-known member
Esau’s descendants, the Edomites(also called Idumeans), never got along with Jacob’s descendants, the Israelites. Edom regularly opposed and fought against Israel. A big part of the problem was that the Edomites were pagans and the Israelites followed God. The prophets Jeremiah and Obadiah said God would “bring disaster on Esau” (Jeremiah 49:8) and that the Edomites would be eventually destroyed (Obadiah 1:18).

The writer of Hebrews uses Esau as a negative example of godlessness: “See that no one is sexually immoral, or is godless like Esau, who for a single meal sold his inheritance rights as the oldest son. Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought the blessing with tears, he could not change what he had done” (Hebrews 12:16–17). This passage also shows how our actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are permanent, even after we have seen the folly of our ways.

The fact that Esau was the older brother, yet Jacob received the birthright, carries theological significance. Esau’s mother had been told before she gave birth to twins that “the older will serve the younger” (Genesis 25:23). So God’s choice—His election—was at work before either of the twins had done anything, good or bad. Paul uses this story to show that we are saved “not by works but by him who calls” (Romans 9:12). God’s sovereignty and election cannot be thwarted: “Just as it is written: ‘Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.’ . . . It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy” (verses 13 and 16, cf. Malachi 1:2–3).got?

Hebrews 12:16
Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright. KJV
that there be no immoral or godless person like Esau, who sold his own birthright for a single meal. NASB
that no one is sexually immoral or unholy like Esau, who sold his birthright for a single meal. ESV
Or lest a man be found among you as a fornicator, or debauched, like Esau, who for one meal sold his birthright. Aramaic

You be the judge !

hope this helps !!!

civic.

It goes without saying that I truly enjoy your posts. It's much like having a Pastor guide me through certain scriptures to make the Bible become alive. Much like what happened when I first accepted the doctrines of grace.

You are a blessing. ✝️
 
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