Is Esau in hell right now?

[ReverendRV]

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein

Romans 6:11
So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

1 Peter 4:1-3
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 John 2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.

1 John 3:6
No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

This would probably be a good time for me to try out my new Hermeneutic...

1st John 2:1 NIV; My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Would it be calling God a Liar to say that when Saint Paul confronted Saint Peter about his Prejudice, if we were to say Saint Peter did not need an Advocate with the Father; because Saints do not Sin?

 

[ReverendRV]

Oh, so I Post and Y'all stop talking; I see how it is...

Don't y'all think that after all this time, Y'all should be making Arguments like I do? Sola Deo Gloria; because I'm just the Dog Catcher...

 

[Slyzr]

Oh, so I Post and Y'all stop talking; I see how it is...

Don't y'all think that after all this time, Y'all should be making Arguments like I do? Sola Deo Gloria; because I'm just the Dog Catcher...

So the barbeque is out?

 

[ReverendRV]

The irony is the concept of being spiritually dead for an unbeliever means no capability of doing anything spiritual but is completely and utterly dead and lifeless but when Paul says we are to be dead to sin somehow means we still sin and are not really dead to sin . Just another oxymoron for many .

The Argument is because of Compatibalism. We believe the same as you do; just more. Did you notice all the Likes I put on your Posts?

So I think it's a good Idea to try out my new Hermeneutic...

1st John 2:1 NIV; My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Saint Paul confronted Saint Peter about his Prejudice. If we said Saint Peter did not need an Advocate with the Father, because Saints do not Sin; would that be calling God a Liar because he said we do have an Advocate if we/Peter Sin?

 

[Theo1689]

Do you believe scripture

We do.
You don't.

Why do you quote 1 John, and then we point out the CONTEXT to you, you run away like a scared rabbit?

Jesus and the apostles say go and sin no more .

John 8:11
She said, No man, Lord. And Jesus said unto her, Neither do I condemn thee: go, and sin no more.

Well, a couple of things...

First of all, Jesus gave an imperative, a command, "Go and sin no more!", and that is not the same as indicative, "you will no longer sin". You don't seem to understand the difference.

Secondly, this is a disputed text, as the earliest and best manuscripts are missing the pericope adulterae. It is found in two different places in John, depending on the manuscript, and sometimes found in Luke, and often not found at all.

John 5:14
Afterward, Jesus found the man at the temple and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you."

Another command, not an indicative statement.
Of course, Jesus is NOT going to tell us to keep sinning. But that doesn't mean we won't stumble in sin occasionally.

Go and study the heresy of "sinless perfectionism.

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein

"live" as in a habit or practice.
We are not to run headlong into sin.
But that doesn't mean we won't stumble in it.

Romans 6:11
So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

"Count yourself".
And "dead to sin", meaning we can no longer be condemned by it.
Do you know why?

1John 2:1 My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin. But if anyone does sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

Amen!
We are not to run headlong into sin.
That dosen't mean we won't stumble once in a while.

1 Peter 4:1-3
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

Unless you're claiming to be Christ, I'm not sure how you think this verse helps your case. You don't bother to read the context of your proof-texts, do you?

1 John 2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.

Nothing about "sinless perfectionism" here.

1 John 3:6
No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

That's actually a pretty good translation.
Notice it isn't referring to refraining from every single sin, it is simply condemning the "practice" or "habit" of sinning, about someone who "keeps on" sinning.

 

[Theo1689]

Some just like to justify sin when Jesus and the Apostles commanded believers not to sin .

Nobody here is "justifying sin".
Sin is bad.
That's why we need an Advocate in Jesus Christ the righteous (1 John 2:1), a verse and truth that you reject.

 

[ReverendRV]

James is right not many should become teachers or attempt to teach others . James 3:1.


Amplified Bible
Not many [of you] should become teachers [serving in an official teaching capacity], my brothers and sisters, for you know that we [who are teachers] will be judged by a higher standard [because we have assumed greater accountability and more condemnation if we teach incorrectly].

Is that meant for me?

 

[Howie]

Do you believe scripture

Jesus and the apostles say go and sin no more .

John 8:11
"No one, Lord," she answered. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Now go and sin no more


John 5:14
Afterward, Jesus found the man at the temple and said to him, "See, you have been made well. Stop sinning, or something worse may happen to you."

Romans 6:2
God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein

Romans 6:11
So you too must count yourselves dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.

Romans 6:15
What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law, but under grace? Certainly not!

1 Peter 4:1-3
Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

1 John 2:29
If you know that He is righteous, you also know that everyone who practices righteousness has been born of Him.

1 John 3:6
No one who remains in Him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has seen Him or known Him.

I believe, and I understand it. I don't believe you do though.

If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves and the truth is not in us. 1 Jn 1:8.

You do sin, @Johnnybgood, yes, you do.

 

[Slyzr]

The Argument is because of Compatibalism. We believe the same as you do; just more. Did you notice all the Likes I put on your Posts?

So I think it's a good Idea to try out my new Hermeneutic...

1st John 2:1 NIV; My dear children, I write this to you so that you will not sin. But if anybody does sin, we have an advocate with the Father—Jesus Christ, the Righteous One.

Saint Paul confronted Saint Peter about his Prejudice. If we said Saint Peter did not need an Advocate with the Father, because Saints do not Sin; would that be calling God a Liar because he said we do have an Advocate if we/Peter Sin?

On a more serious note.

I found that whole exchange concerning.

We get Paul's side of it, and he did have a point.

However, then Paul, later, goes on to proclaim that circumcision is against Christ.

Not Jewish, but I can imagine that one did not sit very well with them.

The retort, might have been something like this, was NOT Jesus circumcised.

ETC ..... ETC.

Not saying Paul was right or wrong ......

But for Jew ..... , even Jewish believers in Jesus, that is a rough one to accept.

 

[Caroljeen]

It says right there "for he found no place for repentance, though he sought for it with tears." I don't read here that he repented. I read that he found no place for repentance. I am just going by what scripture has given us.

Here is another version of Heb 6: 16 See to it that no one becomes an immoral and godless person, as Esau was, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 You know that later, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, even though he sought the blessing with tears.

Maybe this repentance was only speaking to the blessing, the birthright which Esau would inherit, even the promised land. Instead Esau sold it for some food and he could no longer get it back even though he desperately sought God for it. It was too late for God had given it to Jacob instead. Likewise, we shouldn't despise this sweet inheritance that we have in Christ as the children of God and give it up for something temporary and earthy to satisfy our fleshly lusts.

Even though Esau couldn't get the earthly promise of land as his inheritance does that mean he also couldn't inherit eternal life?

 

[Slyzr]

More like he get's out of the soul thingy.

Just my opinion.

IMO, that was what Isaac was telling him.

The Soul thingy is so post to end up being better.

But this never living thing is rough; double rough.

Just my opinion ..... and not much of a biblical scholar.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

And you don’t ? How many James white videos have you quoted and linked ?

Was this your post and there are many more cut pastes and links you have posted .

The "T" in TULIP - refuted in one verse.

If he hadn't "believed" in God, he couldn't have had a "zeal" towards him either. So God looks for good qualities and actions in a person before he appears to them and regenerates them. Not the Gospel I understand, at any rate.

forums.carm.org

Is that what I said? I rarely cut and paste. You and your new best friend don't seem to be able to learn to use scripture only. I also use videos to say in 1:34 seconds that which would take me a very long time to type. They always use scriptures, and rarely the opinions of others.

You are free to believe whatever you wish. But I want to know what you believe and supported by scripture. I rarely use James White because his videos are far too long. But I'm honest in that he is my Pastor. Everyone here is aware of that.

You are quite capable of making an argument from the scriptures. Do so.

Yes, that is a quote of what I said. I offered a wiki article regarding my pastor. I made no attempt to hide a thing.

I grieve that I misunderstood what you have now claimed.

God Speed

 

[armylngst]

1 John 3
Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

I John 1 "10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

 

[Slyzr]

I John 1 "10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar and His word is not in us."

No one is saying we have not sinned!!!!

Put down your war club .......

Tired of getting hit.

Sheesh .....

 

[Beloved Daughter]

So does 1 verse nullify 50

Is it possible for you folks to stop misrepresenting what others have said? Armylngst did say that at all.

We could provide a mountain of scripture that refutes you. But it seems that you prefer the numbers game. i.e. there are x number of verses on my side and x number of another view. This is why we use a good hermeneutic, and learn to harmonize scripture.

Is that meant for me?,

No I don't think so, but it's the very reason I am so disappointed with our new Arminians. I honor their beliefs, but leave out the snark, mocking, and the appearance of belittling others.

I count Arminians as my brothers and sisters in Christ and I know you do as well.

 

[ReverendRV]

So does 1 verse nullify 50

No. All Verses are equally True...

 

[Slyzr]

No. All Verses are equally True...

I'm thinking about repenting later.

Got anything?

That is tongue in cheek.

But seriously?

 

[armylngst]

Here is another version of Heb 6: 16 See to it that no one becomes an immoral and godless person, as Esau was, who sold his birthright for a single meal. 17 You know that later, when he wanted to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, even though he sought the blessing with tears.

Maybe this repentance was only speaking to the blessing, the birthright which Esau would inherit, even the promised land. Instead Esau sold it for some food and he could no longer get it back even though he desperately sought God for it. It was too late for God had given it to Jacob instead. Likewise, we shouldn't despise this sweet inheritance that we have in Christ as the children of God and give it up for something temporary and earthy to satisfy our fleshly lusts.

Even though Esau couldn't get the earthly promise of land as his inheritance does that mean he also couldn't inherit eternal life?

To be frank, I have no idea whether he is in heaven or hell, but by scripture, it would appear that he is probably in hell. No definitive answer can be given, because the Bible is not clear. The passage given just underlines the *possibility* that he is in hell. For instance, we don't know where Adam is right now, but I personally believe he is in heaven. I mean, he was so close to God, could he doubt God's existence, and not believe in him?

 

[armylngst]

No one is saying we have not sinned!!!!

Put down your war club .......

Tired of getting hit.

Sheesh .....

You may not be, but Johnnybgood keeps saying it. The unbeliever is marked by a life of sinning that is synonymous with breathing. As long as they are a live, they are sinning, and living a life of habitual, willful sin. The believer can sin, but that sin is not their life, it is not a pattern of habitual, willful sin. Hence, as I John 2 says, when we sin we have an advocate in Christ. The subject John uses is we, because he is talking about believers. Sinners don't have an advocate at all. I John talks about walking in light or walking in darkness, not finding oneself in light all of a sudden, or finding oneself in darkness. It is a walk. If you stumble and sin (as a believer, not habitual pattern of willful sin), you are still in the light. If you live in sin, if sin is who you are, you are in the darkness, and never were in the light. I John 1:10 was placed after I John 1:9 to combat those who say believers cannot/do not sin. Other verses in I John exist to make it clear the difference between sin in the life of the non-believer (it is their life), and sin in the life of the believer. (It is not their life, they stumbled. God keeps them from falling.)

 

[Slyzr]

You may not be, but Johnnybgood keeps saying it. The unbeliever is marked by a life of sinning that is synonymous with breathing. As long as they are a live, they are sinning, and living a life of habitual, willful sin. The believer can sin, but that sin is not their life, it is not a pattern of habitual, willful sin. Hence, as I John 2 says, when we sin we have an advocate in Christ. The subject John uses is we, because he is talking about believers. Sinners don't have an advocate at all. I John talks about walking in light or walking in darkness, not finding oneself in light all of a sudden, or finding oneself in darkness. It is a walk. If you stumble and sin (as a believer, not habitual pattern of willful sin), you are still in the light. If you live in sin, if sin is who you are, you are in the darkness, and never were in the light. I John 1:10 was placed after I John 1:9 to combat those who say believers cannot/do not sin. Other verses in I John exist to make it clear the difference between sin in the life of the non-believer (it is their life), and sin in the life of the believer. (It is not their life, they stumbled. God keeps them from falling.)

Tend to agree with that post.

For the most part.

However...... see bolded.

How can we not be if we cannot be?

Die sinner?

Over and over again?

How is that tenable?