Is everthing written in the Book of Mormon archaelogically and historically accurate...

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Just a note here, dberrie....your church made a change to the revealed text that wasn't in the original. That is a problem. Clarifications should always be in marginal notes or cross references, not a deliberate change to the text itself.

Thye original "plates" don't exist. At least they aren't available. The translation method was a face in the hat and seer stones, so the only original document we have is what Salt Lake may have squirreled away in the vaults. You don't make "corrections" like that to the most correct book. And BOJ's cop-out of Smith having editorial license is just plain horse hockey.

The LDS believe the reference of "everlasting Father" can be applied to God the Son--regardless of what you believe about any change.

So did the OT writers:

Isaiah 9:6---King James Version
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
 

organgrinder

Super Member
The LDS believe the reference of "everlasting Father" can be applied to God the Son--regardless of what you believe about any change.

So did the OT writers:

Isaiah 9:6---King James Version
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.
A change was still made to the text, a reality that escapes you. As usual, you missed the point.
 
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Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
The scriptures prophesy of a restoration:

Acts 3:21---King James Version
21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.

I don't know of any critic here which claims Catholic affiliations--or Orthodox. Or any heavenly appearances.
This is a stupendiously irrational and arrogant claim that Mormonism has made, that through Smith and his novel, the BoM, he and it restored the church. Mormonism, you and every other Mormon ignore clear Scripture that not even the gates of hell will prevail against His church (and that doesn't mean the RCc). Concerning your eisegetic reference, Acts 3:21. Peter made it clear that Jesus will remain in heaven until the times of restoration of all things and has nothing to do with Joe Smith or the Mormon church.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
This is a stupendiously irrational and arrogant claim that Mormonism has made, that through Smith and his novel, the BoM, he and it restored the church. Mormonism, you and every other Mormon ignore clear Scripture that not even the gates of hell will prevail against His church....

You might want to relate that to the Reformers.

Concerning your eisegetic reference, Acts 3:21. Peter made it clear that Jesus will remain in heaven until the times of restoration of all things and has nothing to do with Joe Smith or the Mormon church.

Acts3:21 testifies there would be a future restoration "of all things". That was accompanied with heavenly visitations on numerous occasions, with witnesses--Jesus Christ included:

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachitestifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
You might want to relate that to the Reformers.



Acts3:21 testifies there would be a future restoration "of all things". That was accompanied with heavenly visitations on numerous occasions, with witnesses--Jesus Christ included:

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachitestifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.
Why do you quote from a book that has no standing....
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Why do you quote from a book that has no standing....

That would be the same question the traditional Jews ask Christians to this very day, concerning the NT.

God has always worked in a manner of continuing revelation--and that was fueled by the appearance of heavenly beings to the living, mortal apostles and/or prophets--which generated a thing we call scripture.

Lastdays--why doesn't your church possess the very qualities the NT possessed? The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has those heavenly revelations in their inception, and so did the first century church, and the OT people of God. When has it ever happened in any other way? When did God change?
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
When did God change?
According to Joe Smith, when he said the Mormon God the Father appeared with the Mormon Jesus Christ with a physical body during his first vision, of which I've read several iterations attributed to Smith so which one do you go with....

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
According to Joe Smith, when he said the Mormon God the Father appeared with the Mormon Jesus Christ with a physical body during his first vision, of which I've read several iterations attributed to Smith so which one do you go with....

John 6:46 No one has seen the Father except the one who is from God; only he has seen the Father

Whichever one I go with won't change the fact the LDS church is filled with heavenly revelations with heavenly beings, with witnesses--the same as the NT church is.

Again--why is your church empty, when it comes to those heavenly revelations and the conception of your church?
 

Lastdaysbeliever

Well-known member
Whichever one I go with won't change the fact the LDS church is filled with heavenly revelations with heavenly beings, with witnesses--the same as the NT church is.
Which one?
Again--why is your church empty, when it comes to those heavenly revelations and the conception of your church?
I'm not here to defend my church, you are here to defend your false belief system.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I'm not here to defend my church, you are here to defend your false belief system.

I'm not sure a church which hasn't the first heavenly event to explain their existence can be defended. It certainly isn't a pattern the NT church sets.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints can show that heavenly pattern--with witnesses, living, mortal apostles and prophets, priesthood, etc.--the same as the NT church experienced.

And--they have continuing revelation. Another witness of Jesus Christ.

That someone without those things can shout--- taint so!!!!--isn't a real concern to anyone.

Lastdays--taint so!!! --is neither a convincing nor a compelling denial. What else do you have?
 
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