Is evil necessary to have good, and is that why God allows evil?

Unknown Soldier

Active member
In case you're not familiar with the term theodicy, it is defined as the vindication of God's goodness and authority in the presence of evil. A common theodicy Christian apologists offer is that God must allow evil to allow good because good cannot exist without evil. I submit that this theodicy is logically flawed. To see what I mean, consider the following argument:

We need good in the world.​
We can't have good without evil.​
Therefore, we must endure evil to experience good.​

The second premise needs to be shown to be valid. So if we let G represent "good" and ¬G represent "not good" or "evil" and ⊢ be the symbol for "therefore," then the second premise can be formalized:

G ⊢ ¬G.

It's easy to prove that this form is not valid not only for G but for any proposition. Using a truth table, premise G can be true yet the conclusion ¬G can be false! Because an argument is only valid if its conclusion is always true when the premise(s) are true, this argument is not valid.

In other words, if good is the case, then evil need not follow.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
In case you're not familiar with the term theodicy, it is defined as the vindication of God's goodness and authority in the presence of evil. A common theodicy Christian apologists offer is that God must allow evil to allow good because good cannot exist without evil. I submit that this theodicy is logically flawed. To see what I mean, consider the following argument:

We need good in the world.​
We can't have good without evil.​
Therefore, we must endure evil to experience good.​

The second premise needs to be shown to be valid. So if we let G represent "good" and ¬G represent "not good" or "evil" and ⊢ be the symbol for "therefore," then the second premise can be formalized:

G ⊢ ¬G.

It's easy to prove that this form is not valid not only for G but for any proposition. Using a truth table, premise G can be true yet the conclusion ¬G can be false! Because an argument is only valid if its conclusion is always true when the premise(s) are true, this argument is not valid.

In other words, if good is the case, then evil need not follow.
Theology is not reality, it is speculation! The only reality of God is if He is manifest in you as He did in Jesus in Matt 3:16
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Be doers of the word
Theology is not reality, it is speculation!
Your gnostic speculation is nothing, what matters is a new creation [which is the result of a new birth—a spiritual transformation—a new nature in Christ Jesus].

Therefore lay aside your filthy rags and overflow of gnostic wickedness and receive the Word, which is able to save.
Anyway, does God need to allow evil so that there can be good?
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 

Baltic

Member
In case you're not familiar with the term theodicy, it is defined as the vindication of God's goodness and authority in the presence of evil. A common theodicy Christian apologists offer is that God must allow evil to allow good because good cannot exist without evil. I submit that this theodicy is logically flawed. To see what I mean, consider the following argument:

We need good in the world.​
We can't have good without evil.​
Therefore, we must endure evil to experience good.​

The second premise needs to be shown to be valid. So if we let G represent "good" and ¬G represent "not good" or "evil" and ⊢ be the symbol for "therefore," then the second premise can be formalized:

G ⊢ ¬G.

It's easy to prove that this form is not valid not only for G but for any proposition. Using a truth table, premise G can be true yet the conclusion ¬G can be false! Because an argument is only valid if its conclusion is always true when the premise(s) are true, this argument is not valid.

In other words, if good is the case, then evil need not follow.
Good overcoming evil through human will ("Christ in me")
is God's cut, reward for organizing the worlds, imo.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Be doers of the word
If you do not as Jesus did and walk as he walks in his same light with the same signs following, then you are not doors of the word, you cant even her His word.
Your gnostic speculation is nothing, what matters is a new creation [which is the result of a new birth—a spiritual transformation—a new nature in Christ Jesus].
Something obviously that you are void of.
Therefore lay aside your filthy rags and overflow of gnostic wickedness and receive the Word, which is able to save.
Yes shed your sin and get born of God, born again.
When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed.
You should listen to your own quotes.
Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Did I not hear you say that you are the sinner?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Then isn't your theology mere speculation?
Love is not speculation as you think that Love is only speculation. My God is Love and is manifest in me just as He was manifest in Jesus. God is not manifest Himself in you is why to you He is only speculation.
Anyway, does God need to allow evil so that there can be good?
Gods kingdom, heaven and hell, He is the instigator of both. From what I read God created everything and the kingdom of God is within you whether you live His heaven or His hell.

What do you say, does He?
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Your gnostic speculation is nothing, what matters is a new creation [which is the result of a new birth—a spiritual transformation—a new nature in Christ Jesus].
Something obviously that you are void of.
It's a given since believers in Christ Jesus have nothing to do with your gnostic delusions.
Did I not hear you say that you are the sinner?
You pulled that out of thin air; For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:12-17
 
Last edited:

Gary Mac

Well-known member
It's a given since believers in Christ Jesus have nothing to do with your gnostic delusions.
Actually all who are of Christ have the same S{Pirit in us who was in Christ Jesus as the gnostic confess that Gods Spirit resides in man. Sense you cant house Gods Spirit yourself is why His gnostics ways of Spirit in man is gnostic lies for you who are agnostic.
You pulled that out of thin air; For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are sanctified. Hebrews 10:12-17
Sanstification is to recieve from God His Spirit, mind, which to you His Spirit in man is gnostic lies as you keep poking Him with.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Actually all who are of Christ have the same S{Pirit in us who was in Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus, who sets them apart and those who are set apart are of the same family. Heb 2:11
as the gnostic confess that Gods Spirit resides in man. Sense you cant house Gods Spirit yourself is why His gnostics ways of Spirit in man is gnostic lies for you who are agnostic.

Sanstification is to recieve from God His Spirit, mind, which to you His Spirit in man is gnostic lies as you keep poking Him with.
If you're going to boast about your spiritual knowledge, at least know what spirit you are of.
Gods kingdom, heaven and hell, He is the instigator of both. From what I read God created everything and the kingdom of God is within you whether you live His heaven or His hell.
There 'Isabel' stood in the doorway I heard the mission bell​
And I was thinking to myself "This could be Heaven or this could be Hell​

The problem with gnostics is that they act like brazen prostitutes. Ezek 16:30 And refuse to be ashamed. Jer 3:3 Hypocritical liars whose consciences are seared. 1 Tim 4:2
 
Last edited:

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Christ Jesus, who sets them apart and those who are set apart are of the same family. Heb 2:11
it is God who set Jesus apart and it is God who set me apart from those who accuse His ways of gnostic lies.
If you're going to boast about your spiritual knowledge, at least know what spirit you are of.
You should indeed!
There 'Isabel' stood in the doorway I heard the mission bell​
And I was thinking to myself "This could be Heaven or this could be Hell​

The problem with gnostics is that they act like brazen prostitutes. Ezek 16:30 And refuse to be ashamed. Jer 3:3 Hypocritical liars whose consciences are seared. 1 Tim 4:2
Your problem with gnostics in your eyes is gnostics knows that Gods Spirit resides in man His temple and in that to you we who do have Gods Spirit as Jesus had in himself are hypocrites for our conscious is that of God.
 

Baltic

Member
it is God who set Jesus apart and it is God who set me apart from those who accuse His ways of gnostic lies.

You should indeed!

Your problem with gnostics in your eyes is gnostics knows that Gods Spirit resides in man His temple and in that to you we who do have Gods Spirit as Jesus had in himself are hypocrites for our conscious is that of God.
Church started from Gnostic likes, Gnostics were brain of movement, later Christianity was overtaken by dogmatic proto- orthodoxy and Gnostics were banned. Today it became very difficult to sort it out from old wives tales. Modern Christian movement created new their own tales...
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Gary Mac said:
Actually all who are of Christ have the same S{Pirit in us who was in Christ Jesus
Christ Jesus, who sets them apart and those who are set apart are of the same family. Heb 2:11
Gary Mac said:
as the gnostic confess that Gods Spirit resides in man. Sense you cant house Gods Spirit yourself is why His gnostics ways of Spirit in man is gnostic lies for you who are agnostic.

Sanstification is to recieve from God His Spirit, mind, which to you His Spirit in man is gnostic lies as you keep poking Him with.
If you're going to boast about your spiritual knowledge, at least know what spirit you are of.
Gary Mac said:
Gods kingdom, heaven and hell, He is the instigator of both. From what I read God created everything and the kingdom of God is within you whether you live His heaven or His hell.
There 'Isabel' stood in the doorway I heard the mission bell​
And I was thinking to myself "This could be Heaven or this could be Hell​

The problem with gnostics is that they act like brazen prostitutes. Ezek 16:30 And refuse to be ashamed. Jer 3:3 Hypocritical liars whose consciences are seared. 1 Tim 4:2
Your problem with gnostics in your eyes is gnostics knows that Gods Spirit resides in man His temple and in that to you we who do have Gods Spirit as Jesus had in himself are hypocrites for our conscious is that of God.
If you were of the same Spirit as Jesus, you wouldn't be "the instigator of both".

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. Rev 1
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
response to OP + syllogism

good and evil together is the tree (realm, mind, nature) of God’s enemy. and the tao symbol visualizes that dualistic reality of the satanic mindset. The tree of knowledge of Good and evil is where we are now. it is the corrupt reality (mind) adam touched, and entered to.
and by doing that and much evil after that working for the fallen angels, adam betrayed God.

God declared his own creation Good and it has no need of satans good-evil dualism.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
response to OP + syllogism

good and evil together is the tree (realm, mind, nature) of God’s enemy. and the tao symbol visualizes that dualistic reality of the satanic mindset. The tree of knowledge of Good and evil is where we are now. it is the corrupt reality (mind) adam touched, and entered to.
Tree realm? What you see as evil we who has received from God that knowledge of Him that He puts in man as He did in Adam and became like God to know this difference, just as Jesus did in Matt 3:16, Abraham, Moses, 120. God has mad us like Him and in His image which is Love.

To many here see His ways as evil just read the post when you tell them that Adam obeyed and received from God His same mind, knowledge, heaven to become like Him and in His same image. Gen 3;22, Matt 3:16.

and by doing that and much evil after that working for the fallen angels, adam betrayed God.
Adam didnt betray God LOL, he obeyed and became like Him to know the difference from good and evil, you just havent received that same Spirit to become like Him yourself to know that difference.
God declared his own creation Good and it has no need of satand good-evil dualism.
Gods creation is good and is evil, He is the instigator of all living and either you are as good as He is or as bad as some here claim God to be gnostic lies.

To have the mind. Spirit, of God is evil for most here as you just stated is Gods enemy.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
the tree of knowledge of good and evil is this cosmos
 

Attachments

  • 8DE64A04-53F5-4EDF-BC09-D84CB80D7253.png
    8DE64A04-53F5-4EDF-BC09-D84CB80D7253.png
    102.7 KB · Views: 2

e v e 21

Well-known member
God’s Good is so beyond any concept of ‘good’ that good and evil tree pretends to have.
 

e v e 21

Well-known member
1 be like Christ in paradise with God

or

2 be like adam in adam’s corrupt cosmology (this earth) with the fallen angels

i choose 1.
 
Top