Is evil necessary to have good, and is that why God allows evil?

shnarkle

Well-known member
That's not the phrase you posted. Here's the actual phrase I looked for that you claimed you said:

You added the "if."

So breathe deeply and quote yourself accurately.
Please be so kind as to elaborate on what effective difference this has on the validity of the argument.

For someone who claims to have studied logic, it is bewildering to see that you seem to have no familiarity with "if/then" statements.

There is no effective difference between saying "only God exists" and "if only God exists".

Moreover, not only have you ignored this fact, but you've failed to provide any reason why or how this is relevant to your false claims, not to mention my argument which you still have yet to even address. You're still mistakenly thinking that you've address my post when you haven't. We're all still waiting...
 

Unknown Soldier

Active member
Please be so kind as to elaborate on what effective difference this has on the validity of the argument.
Very obviously in any sensible discourse we need to quote people accurately--especially ourselves!
For someone who claims to have studied logic, it is bewildering to see that you seem to have no familiarity with "if/then" statements.
I know the difference between a statement A and if A. Statement A tells us that A is true while if A presents A as hypothetical to see what follows when A is true.
There is no effective difference between saying "only God exists" and "if only God exists".
"Only God exists" is an unconditional statement, and "If only God exists" is the antecedent of a conditional statement. That's the difference between the two statements.
Moreover, not only have you ignored this fact, but you've failed to provide any reason why or how this is relevant to your false claims, not to mention my argument which you still have yet to even address. You're still mistakenly thinking that you've address my post when you haven't. We're all still waiting...
LOL--Schnarke, just make sure to get your quotations straight.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Very obviously in any sensible discourse we need to quote people accurately--especially ourselves!
Not when the two quotes are effectively the same.
I know the difference between a statement A and if A. Statement A tells us that A is true while if A presents A as hypothetical to see what follows when A is true.

"Only God exists" is an unconditional statement, and "If only God exists" is the antecedent of a conditional statement. That's the difference between the two statements.
And with regards to this argument, there is no effective difference.
LOL--Schnarke, just make sure to get your quotations straight.
This is known as "the pot calling the kettle black." First you address an argument I never made, then you ignore what I've actually posted because you claim that "God doesn't exist" and " if God doesn't exist" makes any effective difference to the argument you've actually been presented with. This claim bears no relevance to the point presented to you. If God doesn't exist is effectively identical to saying "Let's say God doesn't exist...etc." Moreover, the conclusion presented necessarily follows from both iterations which you still have yet to address. To let a point stand is to concede its validity. To come up with a completely different claim which was never presented in the first place and answer that bogus claim is the fallacy of the Strawman argument which you are quite adept at, but sadly, not good enough to present it in such a way that people who can comprehend what you're posting wouldn't notice it.

No one cares about your blatantly foolish Strawman arguments, nor your insistence in presenting distinctions which make no effective difference whatsoever. No one is impressed with these pointless deflections.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
@Unknown Soldier
No one cares about your blatantly foolish Strawman arguments, nor your insistence in presenting distinctions which make no effective difference whatsoever. No one is impressed with these pointless deflections.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith Eph 2:8

In Jesus Christ, so even we have believed, Gal 2:16

For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. Gal 3:25-29 1 Corinthians 12:20

That there should be no schism 1 Corinthians 12:25
 
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Unknown Soldier

Active member
Not when the two quotes are effectively the same.

And with regards to this argument, there is no effective difference.

This is known as "the pot calling the kettle black." First you address an argument I never made, then you ignore what I've actually posted because you claim that "God doesn't exist" and " if God doesn't exist" makes any effective difference to the argument you've actually been presented with. This claim bears no relevance to the point presented to you. If God doesn't exist is effectively identical to saying "Let's say God doesn't exist...etc." Moreover, the conclusion presented necessarily follows from both iterations which you still have yet to address. To let a point stand is to concede its validity. To come up with a completely different claim which was never presented in the first place and answer that bogus claim is the fallacy of the Strawman argument which you are quite adept at, but sadly, not good enough to present it in such a way that people who can comprehend what you're posting wouldn't notice it.

No one cares about your blatantly foolish Strawman arguments, nor your insistence in presenting distinctions which make no effective difference whatsoever. No one is impressed with these pointless deflections.
If you like, then we can go back over your argument to scrutinize it. But to do so, I'll need to know what argument you're referring to. Please post that argument, then I'll take it from there.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
If you like, then we can go back over your argument to scrutinize it. But to do so, I'll need to know what argument you're referring to. Please post that argument, then I'll take it from there.
If you'd care to scrutinize my argument, you're more than welcome to do so at your leisure. Given that you can't tell the difference between "let's say only God exists...etc. " and "if only God exists...etc.", there's really no point in bothering to spoon feed an argument to you repeatedly. You didn't get it the first time, so it isn't likely that you're going to get it no matter how meticulous one is in repeating it to you.

Given that you have yet to refute it, you've effectively conceded the points presented anyways.
 

Unknown Soldier

Active member
If you'd care to scrutinize my argument, you're more than welcome to do so at your leisure. Given that you can't tell the difference between "let's say only God exists...etc. " and "if only God exists...etc.",
But you just got done saying that "there is no effective difference" between the two! You seem to be confusing what you said with what you think I said.
there's really no point in bothering to spoon feed an argument to you repeatedly. You didn't get it the first time, so it isn't likely that you're going to get it no matter how meticulous one is in repeating it to you.

Given that you have yet to refute it, you've effectively conceded the points presented anyways.
Fine. I will move on then.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
But you just got done saying that "there is no effective difference" between the two!
Correct. You claimed I that I posted "if only God is good...etc." I didn't post that at all. Then you claimed that "if only God exists...etc." isn't what I posted because I didn't use the word "if" as if that actually makes any effective difference to what I actually posted. It doesn't and you still have yet to address what I actually posted because you quite simply have better things to do like pretend that the presence of "if" in a sentence actually makes any effective difference. These pointless deflections don't advance the discussion in any meaningful way, but they do quite effectively steer the thread away from your own OP which you don't seem willing to defend in the first place.
You seem to be confusing what you said with what you think I said.
I'm sure you claimed that I posted "if only God is good...etc." I didn't. I'm not the one who is confused here.
Fine. I will move on then.
In other words, whether it be intentional Strawman arguments or an inability to comprehend or remember what was just posted, you'll concede that you are incapable of refuting what I posted.
 

Unknown Soldier

Active member
Correct. You claimed I that I posted "if only God is good...etc." I didn't post that at all.
Correct. You claimed I that I posted "if only God is good...etc." I didn't post that at all. Then you claimed that "if only God exists...etc." isn't what I posted because I didn't use the word "if" as if that actually makes any effective difference to what I actually posted. It doesn't and you still have yet to address what I actually posted because you quite simply have better things to do like pretend that the presence of "if" in a sentence actually makes any effective difference. These pointless deflections don't advance the discussion in any meaningful way, but they do quite effectively steer the thread away from your own OP which you don't seem willing to defend in the first place.

I'm sure you claimed that I posted "if only God is good...etc." I didn't. I'm not the one who is confused here.

In other words, whether it be intentional Strawman arguments or an inability to comprehend or remember what was just posted, you'll concede that you are incapable of refuting what I posted.

Just go back to the OP. I proved there that evil isn't necessary to have good. That proof is a bit technical, and if you don't understand it, then you are welcome to ask questions about it.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed... [when He is revealed, we shall be like Him 1 John 3:2]
Not really because the same events I read of in the book happened to others happened in me. Cant understand the book at all least you become part of it.
That You May Believe
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29-31 1 Peter 4:13
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed... [when He is revealed, we shall be like Him 1 John 3:2]

That You May Believe
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.
But for you who doesnt believe to you his ways are gnostic lies and you accuse Him of.
Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29-31 1 Peter 4:13
And blessed are we who obeyed and has received as Jesus did in Matt 3:16.

You are like Peter was doubts about God and Jesus with oaths and curses as gnostic liars, but eventually Peter saw Him as He really is and became like Him as well, and the Lord is awaiting for you to do the same and become.

You know very well something is missing in your doctrine and is incomplete lacking Gods anointing.
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
Jesus said to him, “Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed... [when He is revealed, we shall be like Him 1 John 3:2]

That You May Believe
And truly Jesus did many other signs in the presence of His disciples, which are not written in this book;
but these are written that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that believing you may have life in His name.

Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.” John 20:29-31 1 Peter 4:13
But for you who doesnt believe to you his ways are gnostic lies and you accuse Him of.
Again, the gnostic liar is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. 1 John 2:22
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Again, the gnostic liar is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. 1 John 2:22
Yes for gnostics know that Gods Spirit resides in us, that agnostic spirit of yours who says that's a lie is the antichrist working his will in you. .
 

JonHawk

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Again, the gnostic liar is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. 1 John 2:22
Yes for gnostics know that Gods Spirit resides in us, that agnostic spirit of yours who says that's a lie is the antichrist working his will in you. .
And you who believe, He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the spirit who now works in blind gnostics. Eph 2

Don't let anyone deceive you with their empty gnostic disposition; For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph 5:6-7
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
JonHawk said:
Again, the gnostic liar is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. 1 John 2:22
Again' whoever accuses His ways as gnostic lies defiantly denies the Christ for sure.
And you who believe, He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, in which you once walked according to the spirit who now works in blind gnostics. Eph 2
We who has receieved that what Jesus did from God are made alive. The ones who see His ways as gnostic lies are dead in sin and trespasses as agnostic which makes His ways a lie.
Don't let anyone deceive you with their empty gnostic disposition;
Amen, receive from God that what Jesus did and bypass all of mans opinions who see His ways as empty dispositions that comes from an agnostic mind who do not believe that Gods Spirit resides in man as gnostics know and has receieved His Spirit from God Himself. .

Do you know why you are so opposed to the ways of Gods Spirit? You dont believe that Gods Spirit resides in man as gnostics know that He does.

For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph 5:6-7
You and Paul still are in that darkness of the sinner you say you are.

Thank God I walk in the light as He is in the light instead of your darkness of sin who accuse God in His ways for Spirit, mind, as a gnostic liar
 
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