Is faith a fruit of the Spirit?

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Go for it !

Just you and I. I will respond to no other poster and you do not either. I ask a question then you ask a question. You may go first. TOPIC?
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
You have completely ignored my counter arguments which are based on Luke's account of the same event. Luke says that the disciples, like the rest who heard it with them, didn't understand the meaning.
Doug, my friend, you were the one who originally quoted from Matt. 13, right? I am getting the feeling that you are trying to pit one Apostle against the other, here.​
Luke 8:9 His disciples asked him what this parable meant. 10He said, “The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of God has been given to you, but to others I speak in parables, so that, “ ‘though seeing, they may not see; though hearing, they may not understand.’

Thus, they didn't have a clue about the parable's meaning. But Jesus then says that they, as the 12, have been given the right to hear and understand the meaning of the secrets of the Kingdom of God within the parable, and he then explains it.
Jesus was preaching to a very large crowd, Doug. And spoke to the whole crowd in these parables, not just to the 'inner circle'. You quoted Matt. 13 to attempt to prove free-will choices of sinner. And I was making my argument that it does not. Jesus addresses to why speak in parable to the crowd: 13This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.​
Matthew focuses on the question of why parables are being used, which focuses on the outside crowd, not the inner circle, while Luke focuses on the disciples lack of understanding. Mark's version is much more ambiguous saying,

4:10When he was alone, the Twelve and the others around him asked him about the parables. 11He told them, “The secret of the kingdom of God has been given to you. But to those on the outside everything is said in parables 12so that, “ ‘they may be ever seeing but never perceiving, and ever hearing but never understanding;
otherwise they might turn and be forgiven!’ ”

All I am saying is the synoptic accounts need to be taken as a whole, and to make a proposition based solely one one account is not the better part of wisdom. I don't necessarily disagree with what you have said, I just think you are being too narrow with the text because Matthew's account fits your argument the best.

Thank you for your kindness regarding my father! Just trying to make the best of a most difficult time. God is good!

Doug
Dear friend, you were the one brought Matt. 13, and I am not pitting one Apostle against the other, neither. Both eyewitness accounts both same the thing.

Luke 8:9And when his disciples asked him what this parable meant, 10he said, “To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that ‘seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.’

So, again Doug, Christ spoke in parables to the whole crowd, and the passages reads, 'To you it has given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that 'seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'

You now quoted both Matthew and Luke to prove free-will, but these passages do not support it. Because to the others it was not given to know the secrets of the Kingdom of God. Why Doug?

Take care dear friend.
 
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