Is faith a fruit of the Spirit?

ReverendRV said:
My "Filthy-Rag" faith approach is very strong. I'm an ABC 123 Elementary mini theologian who can say the same thing as Great Theologians; but in an interesting way...
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Filthy rags is a bit strong; especially 2000 years later.

But it definitely was to be a new "thing".

An improvement.
 
Slyzr said:
Filthy rags is a bit strong; especially 2000 years later.

But it definitely was to be a new "thing".

An improvement.
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Fair enough...

Thanks for thinking my Post was an interesting way to put things. The way I teach is meant to be thought provoking...
 
ReverendRV said:
I say every Christian will agree with your Verse, and say that yes; faith in this Context is a Fruit of God. But I think some will say Saving Faith isn't a Fruit of the Spirit; because this Faith precedes our being placed in the True Vine...

I'd counter that by saying 'Look at the other Fruits listed in the Verse'. "Love, Joy, Peace, Longsuffering, Gentleness, and Goodness". If Saving Faith is not a Spiritual Gift, then before our Belief in the Truth; none of these are Spiritual Gifts. Our love before we Believe is not a Saving Love. Our goodness before our Belief in the Truth is not a Saving Goodness. It is actually a 'Filthy-Rag' goodness; right? Our faith before Belief in the Truth is likewise Filthy-Rag faith...

So perhaps they are right; our faith before our Belief in the Truth is NOT a Spiritual Gift...

@TibiasDad @Carbon
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It seems to me that you're subtly trying to make faith "a work" with YOUR expressing "filthy rag faith".

As much as the Scriptures tell us about faith, I've never read such nonsense from the Scriptures.
 
sundance said:
It seems to me that you're subtly trying to make faith "a work" with YOUR expressing "filthy rag faith".

As much as the Scriptures tell us about faith, I've never read such nonsense from the Scriptures.
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Not really; I'm saying that a Fallen faith is also a Dead faith. I hope you believe me about what I'm trying to say...

A Muslim's faith is a Dead, Filthy-Rag faith; right? I'm conflating a Dead, Filthy-Rag faith in Jesus with a dead, Filthy-Rag faith in Mohamed...
 
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sundance said:
I see God as trying to "win" the will of men. The idea that God must irresistibly force man to act is contrary to any concept I have of a supreme being fully satisfied in Himself.
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Two things if I may.
1) God is "TRYING to win the will of men". I don't think our omnipotent God has to try to do anything. The God who uphold and sustains all things.

2) No one teaches God forces men to do anything. He does not have to.
 
fltom said:
Send the gospel

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
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Faith logically implies belief.

fltom said:
John 6:45 It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
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And "learned of the Father" logically implies belief also.

Again, do you understand how the logical truth works?
 
TheTruth said:
Faith logically implies belief.



And "learned of the Father" logically implies belief also.

Again, do you understand how the logical truth works?
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In this text maybe not so much.

seems more like a this then that ...... txt.

The text expalining the that.

Perhaps the Pistis in the text is more like faithfulness.
 
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Reformedguy said:
Two things if I may.
1) God is "TRYING to win the will of men". I don't think our omnipotent God has to try to do anything. The God who uphold and sustains all things.
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I agree that God upholds and sustains all things. I don't see how believing this precludes God from TRYING to win the will of men.

What victory is there in force others to be exactly like you want them to be?

Reformedguy said:
2) No one teaches God forces men to do anything. He does not have to.
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So much for "IRRESISTIBLE"... what was that again?
 
ReverendRV said:
Not really; I'm saying that a Fallen faith is also a Dead faith. I hope you believe me about what I'm trying to say...

A Muslim's faith is a Dead, Filthy-Rag faith; right?
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In the way that you illustrate dead faith, it is the object of faith that makes it dead. Faith in God is not dead when it produces action. Right? God declares faith in Him as righteousness, so I’m not buying into the filthy rag faith analogy. It seems like we’ve drifted off the road into the ditch calling faith our filthy rag. And I know D is the poster who used the term first. Just tossing in my two cents.

God bless
 
Joe said:
In the way that you illustrate dead faith, it is the object of faith that makes it dead. Faith in God is not dead when it produces action. Right? God declares faith in Him as righteousness, so I’m not buying into the filthy rag faith analogy. It seems like we’ve drifted off the road into the ditch calling faith our filthy rag. And I know D is the poster who used the term first. Just tossing in my two cents.

God bless
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No problem Brother. I would respond to this by saying a Filthy-Rag faith believes in 'another' Jesus as their Object; thanks for bringing it up. Like those who will say 'We did this in your name'; but Jesus will say he never knew you...
 
ReverendRV said:
No problem Brother. I would respond to this by saying a Filthy-Rag faith believes in 'another' Jesus as their Object; thanks for bringing it up. Like those who will say 'We did this in your name'; but Jesus will say he never knew you...
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I'll be heading to work. I hope y'all can see, you do not have to reject Calvinism to hold to All Truth...
 
ReverendRV said:
No problem Brother. I would respond to this by saying a Filthy-Rag faith believes in 'another' Jesus as their Object; thanks for bringing it up. Like those who will say 'We did this in your name'; but Jesus will say he never knew you...
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Better filthy-rag faith than self-righteous faith.

Nobody earns heaven with the purity of their faith—it violates grace.
 
Johnnybgood said:
The Bible talks about man’s righteousness as filthy rags not faith . The Bible talks about a dead faith . It seems you are conflating them .
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I am; I can explain it later...
Dizerner said:
Bingo, bullseye.

This is key to a lot of Calvinist thought.

As if we bring something good that lets us get saved.... *shakes head*.

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I've watched that and his main objection is something I have Thought of, and answered. I'll watch it later...
 
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