Is freewill real or something we invented is there biblical truth that God gave us freewill ?

Arikel88

New Member
We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.


Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.


There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d’s people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.


Romans 7:19 **“**For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”


Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”


Psalm 110:2 “Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.”


From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.


Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don’t talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d’s plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.


People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.


James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”


2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d’s people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.


Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.


Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


God’s general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn’t control everything
God’s specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.


Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.


Proverbs 3:5-6“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
I believe in free will to the extent that I can decide to go right or left. Eat Pizza or Tacos. Listen to Christian Music or Country Music, even both.

But the Bible does NOT teach free will unto salvation.

From Martin Luther:

“It is, then, fundamentally necessary and wholesome for Christians to know that God foreknows nothing contingently, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks ‘free will’ flat,
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Here I defend free will from from logic and from Scripture and from personal experience:

https://forums.carm.org/threads/god...elf-all-the-time-john-12-32.5483/#post-369683

In regards to compatibilism, the attempt to somehow posit both or synthesize them, I have one problem with it, and that is it has no functional benefit. Since one would believe autonomy and determinism both exist, one should functionally focus on the autonomy and ignore the determinism, because the determinism plays no useful role in motivating choices. One could also argue that it necessarily flattens out to determinism, but this is not even necessary to do, since the determinism would be unnecessary to know.
 

Arikel88

New Member
We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.

No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.

We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

Our own system is flaw because we copy from each empire that has been establish Babylon, Rome, Greece, Britian, and Nazi Germany. Each has given its concept of right and law and all have copied each other and failed. Because again bible has establish that G-d and his system works and we with our notion of democracy and rights have copied on Rome and Babylon and they are wrong.

The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth.

The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Freewill from that point of view is that of society and since society has masonry in it and all foundations of masonery is babylon and Dagon it compells people to make G-d like unfair despotism but you cannot apply that to G-d for he is G-d and he is God of Gods those words are just feeble people who make laws copying the old empires and fallacy arrives in it's policy.

There is A way government can follow G-d's politics but that will be another day. But people and society will always collapse confronting and using thier rights and saying there is no freewill when you have to one understand things from G-d's point of view understand what serveth the law, how the law is completed thru love and how faith as A tool helps you make A better realtionship with G-d.

When you find the truth and love in his way that G-d establish thru Jesus Christ you understand A secret way which freewill co-exist with G-d and love is what that bound unites it and makes freewill work but not under modern society but thru G-d mosaic law and know that is true freewill has been given to you but from the stance of modern world and republics establish go into error. I will explain more but have did A lot.
 

Arikel88

New Member
Freedom has A priced and since culture and civilization arosed we all are destined for something sometimes in this modern times the system the laws, the courts, the math, the digital world controls us we cannot be free. But our lord gave us that freedom and God les us choose the path.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
We have freewill God lets us decide to do good or bad and our purpose in life is when we make that decision. it's easy to not know that purpose because we are different. But freewill God gives it but he also gives us the law and the law is not wrong and niether is freewill just soceity itself is wrong and we have forgotten what is the normal back in those days. Society mistakes and thinks G-d is against freewill but gave freewill the right to choose and they have invented freewill is voting, paying taxes, and civics duties.

No people those things are the mistake modern society makes because they think they have evolved in such A way they surpass all of Israel back in those day but truth G-d is fair and gave us all. We have lost what is important love because human society is wrong and it's foundation is false and invented by masons.

G-d created it all the rocks, the atmosphere, everything has been giving and from all that we have built buildings and empires everything we have built has come from him modern world is our work and act but we do not acknowledge them we take the glory and everything for we are sinful. The concept of government we have created but we emulated it from G-d and his kingdom the order G-d has it first, the structure he establish since the dawn of the universe.

We have created rights but we cannot use our rights agaisnt G-d and say he has violated them or civic manner say our freedom and establishment of our democracy hits against G-d and his kingdom. For he has the kingdom and the law. The law of his word and we do not have that for G-d gave us words but we are babylon the law is only his. Nor it belongs to hebrew people, eunuchs, or angels it only belongs to him to judge.

The most important things that because we have technology which has help us after world war 2 we think we have surpass it all and enter the digitla world and we circumvalent our promblems of family, corruption, and normal things we had before the 1950's and think we are gods. And we want to be eternal and to be like powerful like G-d because it is what we have always been thinking because all of it is copy. When we are original and have the right system like he does everything works but our government and system does not because we are with flaws and our own boundaries aren't the solutions they are A reminder that we will never have A perfect system thus our rights and belief in them cannot be the truth.

The freewill is revealed that there is A difference from freewill with G-d on accepting the right and wrong and succeeding in that way and from freewill from our modern concept which has failed and clashes with G-d's law which is right and truth and unless we do not use our rights against G-d freewill is that what we make only A lie and it existence false.

Post snipped for brevity.
Lot's of information, but nary any scripture. Scripture is what I follow.

John 6:37-39English Standard Version (ESV)

37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. 38 For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. 39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.


John 6:44English Standard Version (ESV)

44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.


Romans 9:14-24English Standard Version (ESV)

14 What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! 15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” 16 So then it depends not on human will or exertion,[a] but on God, who has mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” 18 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills.

19 You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” 21 Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? 22 What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, 23 in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory— 24 even us whom he has called, not from the Jews only but also from the Gentiles?


Ephesians 1:3-11English Standard Version (ESV)

3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, 4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us[a] for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, 6 to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved. 7 In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace, 8 which he lavished upon us, in all wisdom and insight 9 making known[b] to us the mystery of his will, according to his purpose, which he set forth in Christ 10 as a plan for the fullness of time, to unite all things in him, things in heaven and things on earth.

11 In him we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of him who works all things according to the counsel of his will,


Romans 8:28-30English Standard Version (ESV)

28 And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good,[a] for those who are called according to his purpose. 29 For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.


Ephesians 2:8-10English Standard Version (ESV)

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.


Acts 13:48English Standard Version (ESV)

48 And when the Gentiles heard this, they began rejoicing and glorifying the word of the Lord, and as many as were appointed to eternal life believed.


Colossians 2:13English Standard Version (ESV)

13 And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,


Titus 3:5English Standard Version (ESV)

5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,


1 Peter 1:3English Standard Version (ESV)
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ! According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

2 Timothy 2:25English Standard Version (ESV)

25 correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth,


Deuteronomy 30:6English Standard Version (ESV)

6 And the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the heart of your offspring, so that you will love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul, that you may live.


 

Theophilos

Active member
I believe in free will to the extent that I can decide to go right or left. Eat Pizza or Tacos. Listen to Christian Music or Country Music, even both.

But the Bible does NOT teach free will unto salvation.

From Martin Luther:

“It is, then, fundamentally necessary and wholesome for Christians to know that God foreknows nothing contingently, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks ‘free will’ flat,
Foreknowledge is not the same as predetermined.

Astronomers know the position of the planets with amazing accuracy decades in advance, but they are not predetermining the movements.
 

e v e

Super Member
We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.


Here G-d gives Adam gives him ability to think for himself and he decide the animals name.


There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d’s people they had freewill to decide. Their decision is under the law because they did not know other religions or ways they were narrowminded but still the decision from good and evil existed. Did the errors of their fathers before them I mean the fall of Adam stopped them making decisions in their life. Israel did what they want based still of need of surviving. Killing, eating, proceating needs of humanity but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.


Romans 7:19 **“**For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”


Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”


Psalm 110:2 “Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.”


From the day pagans evolved into modern world and establish their own way. Even thou they seperated from their pagan worhsip Rome forced them to mix their deities and influence with christianism and robbed the followers of Christ of Jesus and they painted him white. Named the G-d of Israel to Zeus and change their panteon.


Hebrew law or mosaic law reminds people to obey but G-d has taken prophets to save and do the will of G-d in wars, missions, and choosing good and evil. They break the law in disobeying G-d, prophets like Jeremiah who chose G-d disobey tradition and his father and told Israel their errors and love for the temple forgotten the temple inside they are made of. Kick Jeremiah out of their circle rejected from society he continued, we have Elijah who many don’t talk about but he change the words of G-d and sentence Jezabel but G-d only wanted to punish Jezabel but Elijah added her family as punishment. G-d was angry at Elijah but forgave him. Still G-d’s plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.


People can change their course in life but what is the promblem from today. Is how the Greek way of thinking of liberalism was popular in the time of Jesus.


James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”


2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”


And Greeks influence the time of jesus that people like Luke wrote his book in the bible and later Catholic church not knowing fully Hebrew culture copied things from greeks and influence the bible. Remember they were not G-d’s people but A country that stoled and wrote their intrepretation of G-d and took Jesus as an emblema that is not real.


Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill. So freewill clashes with freewill in the old times. That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.


There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.


Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”


God’s general sovereignty- says god is in charge of everything but doesn’t control everything
God’s specific sovereignty- says that He not only has ordained everything, but He also controls everything.


Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.


Proverbs 3:5-6“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”
free will
determinism,
rationalism,

etc.,

are not terms related to or in scripture.
they are philosophy terms.
 

Arikel88

New Member
They are philosophy but word none the less that explain we were given choice we use those words but still the meaning that we have freedom and God gave us this for he is God and we do not understand all his powers he gave A choice to do good or bad. The word we are given is in hebrew and in hebrew those terms do not exist but still we know God loves us and for his shows the universe he does not force because love is unconditional and not by force shows real love and worship and he wants us to be real followers.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
Adam was not given the free will to abdicate this job.
Romans 7:19 **“**For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”
There goes your free will right out the window.
James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”
This is liberty from sin, not liberty to choose to sin.
2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”
Again, liberty from sin.
Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.
The Lord does the directing. No one can choose liberty from sin until God provides them with that option. Paul doesn't deny free agency. However, he does point out that no one can please God. No one can repent until or unless God gives them the gift of repentance in the first place. It is not free will, but God's mercy that is the deciding factor.
 

Theophilos

Active member
No, it's not. Things that are different are not the same.


Here is an Orthodox explanation of how there is no contradiction between human free will and God's foreknowledge.
We believe the most good God to have from eternity predestinated unto glory those whom He has chosen, and to have consigned unto condemnation those whom He has rejected; but not so that He would justify the one, and consign and condemn the other without cause. For that would be contrary to the nature of God, who is the common Father of all, and no respecter of persons, and would have all men to be saved, and to come to the knowledge of the truth {1 Timothy 2:4}. But since He foreknew the one would make a right use of their free-will, and the other a wrong, He predestinated the one, or condemned the other. And we understand the use of free-will thus, that the Divine and illuminating grace, and which we call preventing [or, prevenient] grace, being, as a light to those in darkness, by the Divine goodness imparted to all, to those that are willing to obey this — for it is of use only to the willing, not to the unwilling — and co-operate with it, in what it requires as necessary to salvation, there is consequently granted particular grace. This grace co-operates with us, and enables us, and makes us to persevere in the love of God, that is to say, in performing those good things that God would have us to do, and which His preventing grace admonishes us that we should do, justifies us, and makes us predestinated. But those who will not obey, and co-operate with grace; and, therefore, will not observe those things that God would have us perform, and that abuse in the service of Satan the free-will, which they have received of God to perform voluntarily what is good, are consigned to eternal condemnation.
 

Arikel88

New Member
Shnarkle even I do not like comparing freewill existed before Adam the devil had freewill he disobey the lord and wished to do wrong and take the power from God. Adam had freewill that is why he errored and was fallen in A sense he was tricked but stil disobeyed before the lord he had A choice and he fell. We have freewill and even the term is in english and does not exist in hebrew.

We are giving A choice always to do wrong or right before the lord he gave us freewil and we can obey or disobey an effect we had since the beggining of our existence.
 

Beloved Daughter

Super Member
Here is an Orthodox explanation of how there is no contradiction between human free will and God's foreknowledge.

I appreciate your providing this. But it does not change my mind at all. I have read it before. It's essentially based on scripture that has been poorly exegeted. 2 Timothy 3:9 does not say that God wants all men to be saved. Prevenient grace is nothing more than a made-up term so one can call God unloving.

The facts just don't meet the realities of salvation. God has chosen the elect before the foundation of the world. If God chose them, they will be saved, period, IOW, God calls the shots.

On your side, it sounds like God just couldn't get what He wants done because men are sinful. Ultimately, you have to face up to some awful realities. God allows people whom he knows will never be saved, to be born and left to the flames. Now that would mean God is a monster. It also says that God is so ineffectual that He must rely on men. That just doesn't make sense. It's convoluted from the start. The most powerful God of the universe is subject to what men will or will not do.

Jesus says that only God the Father can draw the elect, in John 6:44.

I have already posted the scripture in post #8. BTW salvation is when God saves by His grace, not us doing works. Ephesians 2:8-9

EOC is trying to force scripture to say what it does not say.

If you want to discuss this further, point by point, I'm willing.


I understand that you believe this and I can respect your deeply held beliefs. In any case, scripture does not affirm this. We are not saved by "making things up".

 

Dizerner

Well-known member
God allows people whom he knows will never be saved, to be born and left to the flames. Now that would mean God is a monster.

Why do you think that would make God a monster? I'm not trying to catch you in something, I'm actually curious.

I'm also—genuinely—wondering: would you consider an eternal punishment for a finite crime as making God a monster, and if not, why?
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Shnarkle even I do not like comparing freewill existed before Adam the devil had freewill he disobey the lord and wished to do wrong and take the power from God. Adam had freewill that is why he errored and was fallen in A sense he was tricked but stil disobeyed before the lord he had A choice and he fell. We have freewill and even the term is in english and does not exist in hebrew.

We are giving A choice always to do wrong or right before the lord he gave us freewil and we can obey or disobey an effect we had since the beggining of our existence.
You're overlooking one very important fact, i.e. free will doesn't amount to much of anything, if you don't have a choice, and Paul makes that point plain when he points out that no one can please God. You don't have that option. How many people were born saved? If you were not born saved, then at some point in your life, you made a decision to turn your life over to God, no? If that's the case, then you didn't have that option prior to making that choice.

Repentance is a gift, and until one is given that gift, they cannot repent.

"The heart of man is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked"

Did you take hold of the gift of repentance because you were acutely aware of how desperately wicked you were? How long were you aware of this condition before you took hold of the gift of repentance, and how were you able to live with that realization?
 

Arikel88

New Member
God says be perfect like your father is in heaven, we must try of course no one is perfect but only Jesus was perfect, don't rely on your works or efforts in life rely on God's love and forgiveness that you love like he does and forgive like he does. We are not aware of our situation if not for the eating of the fruit of good and evil. Do we have to be sinned on purpose so we can be saved no, no, no we were never needed tof all from God's grace but still the enemy did disobey and he cannot be saved. There is more to freewill that we know and people even state in youtube but salvation is not the core of chossing it is if your with God and let him decide for you or with youself and decide everything ? that is the question.

No value can be giving to choice if it is not judged by God he decides who is wrong or right but as creator gives us freedom and Adam had freedom to make A mistake even though he was innocent and the women was innocent too. Everything is for A purpose and everything will be done according what you choose. We were never meant to know what good and evil and still the rules he palced on us still conitnue the one's of good. We will have the happy ending he wants at the end time's but till then we choose if were with him or agaisnt him. Be on his side shnarkle.
 
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