Is freewill real or something we invented is there biblical truth that God gave us freewill ?

[bluedog1us]

Adam was not given the free will to abdicate this job.

There goes your free will right out the window.

This is liberty from sin, not liberty to choose to sin.

Again, liberty from sin.

The Lord does the directing. No one can choose liberty from sin until God provides them with that option. Paul doesn't deny free agency. However, he does point out that no one can please God. No one can repent until or unless God gives them the gift of repentance in the first place. It is not free will, but God's mercy that is the deciding factor.

We all have free will within the boundaries of God's will and God's providence. We have free will over some things but not spiritual things. I can buy a Ford or a Chevrolet. But I can will myself to be a billionaire and unless that is within the will of God, and His providence, it just will not happen. I can will my self to be a major league baseball player but it will not happen unless by His will gives mr the things necessary to make it happen.

 

[Arikel88]

Than pray pray and pray douglas you should see he is small God but the God who created it all your not asking like A little child should and promise as A son how much good you will do not only say but do it really give him all and sacrficie it all Douglas.

He does not forget and above rewards more than you believe !

 

[Theo1689]

It seems obvious (perhaps too obvious to mention?) that when:
(1) there is ZERO Biblical evidence for an imaginary "free will", and
(2) MUCH Biblical evidence CONTRADICTING "free will", then
.... perhaps you should jettison such a false teaching?

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

Rom. 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.

We start from the beggining when Adam was giving the power to name the animals G-d gave him freewill to choose Genesis 2:20.
20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him.

Nothing about "free will" there.
You are simply ASSUMING it.

There is difference from the freewill Hebrew people back in the days of Noah and Moses when the law was directed to G-d’s people they had freewill to decide.

What verse says, "they had freewill to decide"?
I'm not seeing it.

but no matter what the error of Adam did not take freewill from them.

Where does it say that they even HAD "freewill" in the first place, to be "taken from them"?
I'm not seeing it.

Romans 7:19 **“**For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.”

No mention of "free will" there, either.

Ezekiel 18:20 “The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”

No mention of "free will" there, either.

Psalm 110:2 “Your people will volunteer freely in the day of Your power; In holy array, from the womb of the dawn, Your youth are to You as the dew.”

No mention of "free will" there, either.

Still G-d’s plan was only Jezabel but he made an exception for Elijah and freewill existed and changed yes G-d allows it.

Where does SCRIPTURE say, "freewill existed"?!
You still haven't provided ANY verses which support your ASSUMPTION.

James 2:12 “So speak and so act as those who are to be judged by the law of liberty.”

The "law of liberty" does NOT equate to "free will".
Unless you want to throw John and Romans out of the Bible.

2 Corinthians 3:17 “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.”

Just because a verse mentions "liberty" or "free" does NOT mean it's talking about "freewill".

Greek theology is freedom and rationalist thought, Hebrew people is Law and Relation with the one G-d. Greeks have influence the modernworld and gives them right, the western world copies Greek and Roman culture and their diffinity in their laws have given the modern topic freewill.

But where is "freewill" taught IN THE BIBLE?

That is why everything has to do with predestination, Calvanism go ahead and read see all our versions of choosing good and evil have consequences but still you decide your future.

But the Bible TEACHES "predestination".
The Bible TEACHES "election".
The Bible does NOT teach, "freewill".

Do you understand the difference?

There are 2 fields :indeterminism and determinism explain modern freewill and both give notion of control. Indeterminism means free acts are not determine in other words what you do with works does not foretold your future and the path you have chosen. Determinism says everything you do has already decided your future and you have no career. Nothing can change your destiny but G-d can.

Is there a Bible verse coming any time soon, or nothing but worthless rationalization?

Matthew 12:37 “For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

Nothing about "freewill" there, either.
Just some apparent attempt to demonize anyone who doesn't hold your unBiblical view.

Proverbs 16:9 “The mind of the man plans his way, but the Lord directs his steps.

Exactly!
No "freewill".

Proverbs 3:5-6“Trust in the LORD with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding; in all your ways submit to him, and he will make your paths straight.”

Nothing about "freewill" there.

 

[Arikel88]

It seems obvious (perhaps too obvious to mention?) that when:
(1) there is ZERO Biblical evidence for an imaginary "free will", and
(2) MUCH Biblical evidence CONTRADICTING "free will", then
.... perhaps you should jettison such a false teaching?

John 8:34 Jesus answered them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who practices sin is a slave to sin.

Rom. 6:16 Do you not know that if you present yourselves to anyone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness? 17 But thanks be to God, that you who were once slaves of sin have become obedient from the heart to the standard of teaching to which you were committed, 18 and, having been set free from sin, have become slaves of righteousness.

John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. And I will raise him up on the last day.

John 10:26 but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep.

Rom. 8:7 For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. 8 Those who are in the flesh cannot please God.

1Cor. 2:14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.



Nothing about "free will" there.
You are simply ASSUMING it.



What verse says, "they had freewill to decide"?
I'm not seeing it.



Where does it say that they even HAD "freewill" in the first place, to be "taken from them"?
I'm not seeing it.



No mention of "free will" there, either.



No mention of "free will" there, either.



No mention of "free will" there, either.



Where does SCRIPTURE say, "freewill existed"?!
You still haven't provided ANY verses which support your ASSUMPTION.



The "law of liberty" does NOT equate to "free will".
Unless you want to throw John and Romans out of the Bible.



Just because a verse mentions "liberty" or "free" does NOT mean it's talking about "freewill".



But where is "freewill" taught IN THE BIBLE?



But the Bible TEACHES "predestination".
The Bible TEACHES "election".
The Bible does NOT teach, "freewill".

Do you understand the difference?



Is there a Bible verse coming any time soon, or nothing but worthless rationalization?



Nothing about "freewill" there, either.
Just some apparent attempt to demonize anyone who doesn't hold your unBiblical view.



Exactly!
No "freewill".



Nothing about "freewill" there.

Freewill is modern word there is choice and God gave the words in hebrew ! Let me look for them and they mean freedom of choice ! But still freedom to choose is giving by G-d.

 

[Theo1689]

Freewill is modern word there is choice and God gave the words in hebrew ! Let me look for them and they mean freedom of choice ! But still freedom to choose is giving .

Yet another worthless post with ZERO passages teaching "free will".
And don't think I didn't notice that you IGNORED all the passages that I brought up, just like you ignored all the passages others brought up.

Btw, "choice" does NOT mean "free will".

 

[Arikel88]

Choice exist because of freedom of chossing and have the will and hebrew those words exist your just obtrsucting any truth and denying I already handle the likes of you easy. juest give me A moment their.

 

[bluedog1us]

Choice exist because of freedom of chossing and have the will and hebrew those words exist your just obtrsucting any truth and denying I already handle the likes of you easy. juest give me A moment their.

In the days of Noah, God extended the life of everyone by 120 years to repent. 120 years! Noah preached to people for 120 years and told them time and again to repent. Those people had the external word of God to repent even BEFORE He gave them 120 MORE years to repent. So how many repented? ZERO! Why? Because God never gave the efficacious power to do so. And they could NOT turn to God on their own free will, because they had NO free will to do so. They were slaves to sin with no ability or free will to turn from sin!

 

[Theo1689]

Choice exist because of freedom of chossing and have the will and

Where does the BIBLE teach such nonsense?

your just obtrsucting any truth and denying I already handle the likes of you easy.

1) It's "you're", not "your".

2) You haven't GIVEN me any "truth" to even obstruct.

juest give me A moment their.

I see... So you're just going to strike out and claim victory.
<Chuckle>

 

[Arikel88]

Easy boy -_- your just A palm a dozen of wheat ! I ahd to fight 20 of your kind non-believers just take the grain and go type. And I know you just redundant in your own way and just petty I have over you I ahndle CJAb and truth7 guy and beat thme your juts talk nothing more theo !

 

[Arikel88]

Ellis Bell said :

Maybe this will help (I believe the man, L. Ray Smith, who authored this website is deceased)

The Myth of Free-Will Exposed
"Free will does not actually and literally mean that one can make choices, create, change his mind, or reformulate ideas and data, etc., but that those choices and thought processes must themselves be free thoughts and free choices. "Free will" is only true if our choices are also free. But free from what? Why, free from being forced upon us against our will, or free from being caused by anyone or anything except our OWN will. And so, yes, man can think, process data, make choices, change his choices, etc. But none of these activities are free from internal or external CAUSES.
<snip>
Up until the very last day with their Lord, the apostles all believed that they possessed the power of free will, which could enable them to choose their own destiny, and that they could and would have the strength of self determinism and free will to maintain that course. But Jesus told His disciples that they would all forsake Him. In other words, Jesus was foretelling of events that would cause (even "force,' if you will) them to change their wills, against their previously stated wills. They of course, all denied that Jesus knew what He was talking about."
I've had people in my life that would not do me any favors, change their minds and help me with situations. It's really odd to watch, cause it's like, what just happened?

 

[Arikel88]

Let us remember to use our own freewil you know and not use the model lucifer did in his rebbelion we are not the same we will not be judge the same we have repentance and freedom to choose they failed and coveted the powere God posses we must not look for that but be humble in acccept his will and we will do what God intended us before the fall of man and love God with all our heart and love thy neghbor and complete the purpose we were made in Eden and fulfill it today by making earth like heaven by singing and loving and praying being A witness of him and being like Jesus. And when the lord judges the devil in end times he will say you were faithful and did not participate in the world but seperated in spiritual way and keep helping in the world but thinking of Jesus all the time.

Know their will A be time G-d will give justice to what the devil did to this world and all those who worship the world will put things in G-d's hand and not use thier own efforts but in his. Love like Jesus and be the second Adam. It is not easy but little by you become it and all efforts matter up the hill. We must deny ourselve and put him first and doing so we do his will and our choice in him. Secrets are in praying, singing and loving he reveals to us later.

 

[Arikel88]

The base of freewill is what G-d wanted man with freewill before the fall man had man freewill ? and it was perfect ? Yes, Becuase it was align with him before all this of politics, sin, and works and faith of slavation were not part of this he wanted us to be with him in the garden and do one thing . Trust in him put our faith can we keep having our faith and keep the relation with Adam like G-d intended even though we are fallen and cannot be pure like he was, Inoccent ? Jesus is that second Adam he had A relationship and did what Adam was supposed to be A son, A servant and love like G-d loves the world. We are not perfect but we do 10% of the work, 50% of the work and 90 of the work % of faith and he does the rest in mysterious ways. Remember we are imperfect of the fall.

Know that the base of freewill the secret is what he wants before the fall and can we understand the concept of freewill ? He gave man choice to eat the tree of good and evil ? Yes, he did. So know there is freewill concept in what is slavery in the law of mosaic law and how you are liberated, and what is concept of how democracy of goverment of law say and gives freewill to choose A president or leader, the freewill of philosophy greeks talk, the freewill of from sin that Jesus liberates you and what Romans 8:8-9 NLT this verses says from satan. Know that to understand the freewill God gave Adam in the Eden is still the base of all this and we must do what Jesus did. Freewill means different in each culture because the words don't mean the same know the definition in hebrew is another in form of freedom of choice but inside the law and what greeks say about freewill is not the same and it is what influence

 

[Arikel88]

Our modern system in law and what we call liberalism but it is not what God is talking about and what the law says in the mosaic way and how jesus freed us from sin. Thru the mosaic law using the new testament by fullfiling it. Know that is the crucial and essential infromation we talk about and use verses to reveal the 2 commandments help us in the that road. And all this thread reveals to us that infromation. Know there is freewill in the flesh and in the spirit but loves is hte base of it. And destiny, predestination, probabilites of A billion to one, actions and owrks by faith decide our future, and God soveriegn over it and not God soveriegn in the future exist. It all exist and God's plan is what is goes in the end.

Know this why we must understand hebrew lexicon emaning and greek one's too because God's commandmnets are used to be exact and what he ordered in he way and issued was meant for kings, prophets, and his people and we must study thoroughly more and find they meaning to it and discover he meant freewil in one way and freewill for his people thrue Jesus and thru the law another way.

 

[Arikel88]

freewill existed before adam and eve and the devil had it he chosed to rebelled. You saw it exist does the plan of G-d involves love and choosing to be free. Choose to put you will in G-d's will becuase it cause you conflict like everyone that it's impossible don't be in the box that is fate and destiny and what you decide is cannot be without god already planning it ?
The plan of God of giving thanks always is different of how he put the laws of physics and laws of probabilities in the world don't go to conlfict everything is possible. Know that mistake was made with moses and huldah and eliajh shows that fate can be changed. But still to pray and pray and doing the impossible to change your fate your destiny of being shoemaker or being into a lawyer is possible if you want. G-d has moved the universe and the fate of our humanity in wars with assyrians when he sent an angel, he makes miracles everyday and moves time and universe. ungratefulness is what all say because they have cobnflict say it's impossible God already plan for you everything but he's plan of god about been thankful even when bad things and been faithful and obeying him in good and bad times isn't about the future beenalready planned and impossible to avoid his soveriegn and he chosed the path already !


1. what he planned premptively in how the universe wrks and moves the sun and you have night and day and you age and you were bron in A planet God wrote that. physics work and you do everyday on works and buy groceries and food he establish laws.


2.probablitlies that everything changes and destiny moves constantly even when you don't know and G-d gives you every day to change you lifespan choose a better path by eating vegetables and changing your course of life not making the bad decison going to war and decided to go have job in kentucky and you change routes. everyday people the universe makes cracks in its fabric of how the destiny and chances are made by faith by believing by praying know God hears ya and God moves it all. Everything is possible God has used jews and did incredible things like making kings out of ordinary people makins miracles and making man into prophets and moving the universe for them. God does more thinsg we don't know he does for us becuase he loves us.


3.Don't be like the scientists who say everything is already planned he is a dictator god because he already decided everything for us and didn't let us choose. know if you decided things out of nowhere and you popped out of the planet and God ceases to exist you became God you wouldn't know what was the last things God did, then you will decide everything and you will make so many errors because you can't do what God does, and realese finally he was right and he put things all for A reason. Those scientist agnostic thinks if they were God decided everything realized how hard God life is deciding everything and he gave you all but you made the bad decisions in life. You had all the freedom you woulnd't know what to do with it and just make mistakes and if you were free to do everything and be A god you wouldn't find true love you woulnd't do things you just be the same individual looking for things and think having all the freedom and you decided everything you woulnd't find that special thing God has for youa t the end in heaven. You will be lost and still be unperfect those scientist just blame and if they had everything they will just mess up and realize didn't go their way either and mess up.

 

[Dant01]

.
God's free, combined with Christ's free will, trumps everybody else's free will; for
example:

• John 6:39 . . This is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that
He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus' free will never fails to satisfy God's free will.

• John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will
of Him who sent me

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
_

 

[bluedog1us]

.
God's free, combined with Christ's free will, trumps everybody else's free will; for
example:

• John 6:39 . . This is the will of Him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that
He has given me, but raise them up at the last day.

Jesus' free will never fails to satisfy God's free will.

• John 6:38 . . I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will
of Him who sent me

• John 8:29 . . He that sent me is with me: the Father hath not left me alone; for I
do always those things that please Him.

• John 14:31 . . I do exactly what my Father has commanded me.
_

Unless a person can fully grasp the sovereignty of God, the person will never understand scripture! Man has a will, but only within the boundaries of God's will, God's providence, and man's nature. All under the umbrella of God's sovereignty.

 

[GeneZ]

I believe in free will to the extent that I can decide to go right or left. Eat Pizza or Tacos. Listen to Christian Music or Country Music, even both.

But the Bible does NOT teach free will unto salvation.

From Martin Luther:

“It is, then, fundamentally necessary and wholesome for Christians to know that God foreknows nothing contingently, but that He foresees, purposes, and does all things according to His immutable, eternal and infallible will. This bombshell knocks ‘free will’ flat,

Man unto salvation has a problem with will....

This is the problem:

For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." Galatians 5:17

Now, keep in mind. Galatians 5:17 was written to believers.

The Spirit can nullify the power of the flesh over our souls!

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

Galatians 5:16​

So we see that when we have the Spirit controlling us? We will be free of the influence by the flesh!

In the mean while? Understanding that principle?

When a soul is presented the Gospel? Its presented to a soul normally dominated by his flesh. So, how could he possibly believe?

Like it is proven with a believer who chooses to walk in the Spirit? God in his sovereignty will have the Holy Spirit will hold down the power of the flesh over our soul. In that state of grace? At that moment of "grace?" Our soul has been made free to decide for, or against, Christ!

That is why it says we have been saved 'by grace.'

Grace given to us means what? That God did not make us believe. It means God simply, by his grace, made us "able" to believe.
The soul at that moment of grace was made free from the dominance of the flesh as the Holy Spirit suppressed our flesh.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God."

Ephesians 2:8​

Keep in mind... not everyone who is given such grace to be able to believe will choose to believe! For some souls will freely choose to reject the Lord, thus reenacting the same evil desire of Satan when he fell from his state of perfection!

Some won't get. Others will. I am only a messenger....

grace and peace ........

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Man unto salvation has a problem with will....

This is the problem:

For the flesh desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh.
They are in conflict with each other, so that you are not to do whatever you want." Galatians 5:17

Now, keep in mind. Galatians 5:17 was written to believers.

The Spirit can nullify the power of the flesh over our souls!

So I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh."

Galatians 5:16​

So we see that when we have the Spirit controlling us? We will be free of the influence by the flesh!

In the mean while? Understanding that principle?

When a soul is presented the Gospel? Its presented to a soul normally dominated by his flesh. So, how could he possibly believe?

Like it is proven with a believer who chooses to walk in the Spirit? God in his sovereignty will have the Holy Spirit will hold down the power of the flesh over our soul. In that state of grace? At that moment of "grace?" Our soul has been made free to decide for, or against, Christ!

That is why it says we have been saved 'by grace.'

Grace given to us means what? That God did not make us believe. It means God simply, by his grace, made us "able" to believe.
The soul at that moment of grace was made free from the dominance of the flesh as the Holy Spirit suppressed our flesh.

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves,
it is the gift of God."

Ephesians 2:8​

Keep in mind... not everyone who is given such grace to be able to believe will choose to believe! For some souls will freely choose to reject the Lord, thus reenacting the same evil desire of Satan when he fell from his state of perfection!

Some won't get. Others will. I am only a messenger....

grace and peace ........

Removing scripture from its context is generally foolish. You usually don't resort this type of argumentation. Try again.

John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV)



37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I /should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God chooses!

 

[GeneZ]

Removing scripture from its context is generally foolish. You usually don't resort this type of argumentation. Try again.

John 6:37-39 King James Version (KJV)



37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

38 For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.

39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I /should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.



John 6:44 King James Version (KJV)

44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

God chooses!

The point Jesus was making was what?

When Jesus said those words Jews under the Pharisees legalistic teachings were scrambling to discover some new work they can do to gain the approval of God. Jesus was saying that God must do the work to be saved.

It does not say anything about God choosing whom He draws. We all go through the same process of being drawn. Only those who accept being drawn end up becoming saved.

What your teaching does? It leaves God appearing as being unfair, cruel, and unjust to torment anyone who rejects Him.
For with your way? They had no choice but t6o reject, because God did not choose to save them... Yet? They get judged in a most horrible way.

Romans 1:18-22 shows us that God has drawn even those who are to become the most degenerate reprobates!

Read it please?

For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness ​

of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about ​

God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. For his invisible attributes, ​

namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the ​

creation of the world, in the things that have been made. ​

​

So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as ​

God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts ​

were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools."​

Those unbelievers were most definitely drawn! They were shown! They came to know Truth... and then rejected it!

That is why it says!

So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor ​

him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and ​

their foolish hearts were darkened. Claiming to be wise, they became fools."​

Think with the Word! Stop memorizing and repeating what some men might say so you do not have to think for yourself.

Prove all things; hold fast that which is good."

1 Thessalonians 5:21​

For you and I will be held accountable before the Lord as well for what we chose to believe, and how we derived coming to our belief.

In Christ.......