preacher4truth
Well-known member
Yet another hperbolic yet false accusation. It's a practice.
Is God angry with sin ? Since God is angry with sin why do Calvinist believe it was God’s sovereign plan that preordained sin ?
- Thread starter Leatherneck0311
- Start date
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
The truth will set you free NOT Calvinism.
preacher4truth
Well-known member
I'm free in Christ, you're alleging I'm lost.
"Calvinism" is true whether you like it or not. Your teaching about saving yourself by exerting self to understand to be saved, compared to others? That's a false gospel of works. That is Pharisaism; "God, I thank thee that I am not like other men..."
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
No saved, born again, blood bought, forgiven , redeemed child of God believes that God would make men sin and violate His own commands to His creation not to sin, and then have His Son crucified to pay for the sins that He preordained men to commit. That evilness does Not come from God it comes from the god of this world,
nope God saved him when he believed
1 Corinthians 1:21 (KJV 1900) — 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
as God was pleased to do
Acts 16:29–31 (KJV 1900) — 29 Then he called for a light, and sprang in, and came trembling, and fell down before Paul and Silas, 30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Answered and ignored in post # 111, which seems to be a typical tactic for Calvinist.
It is rather convoluted slur upon the holiness and justice and love of God
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Amen.
Theo1689
Well-known member
You describe yourself and Tom perfectly.
Theo1689
Well-known member
When you read the Bible and properly understand it, you get Calvinism.
"Calvinism" is simply a nickname for Biblical theology.
Theo1689
Well-known member
You don't UNDERSTAND "the holiness and justice and love of God".
You think God is nothing but a pansy, luvey-dovey, milquetoast sugar daddy.
Disgusting.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Lol, nope I described the poster that asked me a question that I answered in post #111 then was asked the same question like I never answered which Calvinist typically do when trying to maintain a false narrative.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Nope, you're perfectly describing yourself and Tom.
... and you have nothing to offer but childish insults and mud-slinging.
Leatherneck0311
Well-known member
Nope, when you read and study God’s word sincerely and properly understand it you get JESUS not Calvinism. Not even close Calvinism is a nick name for those who have changed the gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ to the gospel of man made qualifiers that Jesus nor the Apostles taught. I truly believe it partially comes from the “mother church” concept that Calvin and Augustine believed and taught.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Thank you for demonstrating your ignorance of Calvinism.
Jesus is the MAIN character in Calvinism.
You continue to demonstrate you have no clue who or what you're arguing against.
Keep tilting at those windmills, Don Qixote!
That is a false and worthless claim without any evidence whatsoever.
ROTFLOL!
You really think the Catholic church believes in TULIP?
You are ignorant of ALL things religious, aren't you?
Theo1689
Well-known member
That's not how it worked for me.
And judging by how many others reading the Bible independently and coming up with "Calvinism" as the result, it seems that your opinion is ignorant and worthless.
It is a minority and will always be a minority because it reflects negatively on God and those who are concerned about such things will not adopt it
Josheb
Well-known member
My response to that, as a monergist, is to say those particular Calvinists who believe the second question is answerable in the affirmative do not correctly and adequately understand Calvinism. BUT I also think there is a problem of ambiguity contained in the question. What, exactly, is meant by "plan"?I have asked Calvinists, “Is God angry and grieved with sin?” They have answered, “Yes.” Then I’ve asked, “Was sin the secret Sovereign plan of God?” They have answered, “Yes.” Then I’ve asked, “So you’re saying that God is angry and grieved with His own secret Sovereign plan?” They don’t know how to answer that. LINK removed per mod. This verse proves Calvinism is wrong.
Jas 1:13 - Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil,neither tempteth he any man:
Sin is not the plan.
Jesus is the plan.
Jesus addresses the matter of sin. Jesus, the plan of God, addresses the matter of sin. The plan addresses sin, but sin is not the plan. Sin is an aspect of creation the plan addresses, but it is not the plan. You, as a non-Cal should be able to call out all such Cals by simply pointing to the WCF because it plainly states God was not the author of sin. How can sin be His plan if He's not the author of sin? That would necessarily imply He is not the author of His own plan.
I, therefore, think you're going to have to take some responsibility for the foolhardiness of that ensuing conversation because of the way you framed the question. It reads like bait. You should give some consideration about how James 1:13 applies to us all, to you in this instance. Consider James 1:13 as it intersects with verses like Luke 17:1. We should all be careful how we tempt others.
Ultimately, I think the problem to which the op justly seeks to bring to our attention is a problem I have often mentioned. The NUMBER ONE problem in the Arm v Cal board is the failure of believers, otherwise sincere and earnest believers, to understand their own doctrine. Straw men are huge problem in this board, but misrepresenting the other side's views is second place to our own failure to correctly understand what we claim we believe. Determinism and Pelagianism are simply the two extremes, the pole everyone should be avoiding. Determinism is no more Calvinism than Pelagianism is Arminianism. Determinists are wrong to think of themselves as Calvinists. ALL of you can recall an example when I have quoted Calvin to prove he was not a (strict) determinist. Pelagianism, Traditionalism, and Wesleyanism are not classic Reformed Arminianism. Augustine, Luther, Knox and others were monergist, not wholly in agreement with Calvin.
That's why it's important for us to label our views from time to time so we don't end up arguing under the guise of Calvinism or Arminianism when we're neither.
So.... I will side with you in saying 1) Sin is not the plan, 2) It is self-contradictory to say God is angry with His own plan, 3) that kind of "logic" isn't logical or scriptural, but I will likely part ways with you 4) to say that has anything to do with Calvinism as Calvin taught salvation, and 5) there is a thoroughly scriptural way to understand the problem of sin as irrelevant to God's plan, and 6) monergism proves the best position.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Many are called, FEW are chosen.
NARROW is the path, and FEW there be who find it.
Wrong.
In glory, it will be the unanimous majority, as it is God's truth.
No, it doesn't.
It's sad that you value sinful man over a Holy God.
Those who are concerned about such things HAVE adopted it, because it is the truth of God.