Is it okay to murder a baby that has been born if its parents are extremely poor and the baby will have a bad life?

Temujin

Well-known member
So why does UK law allow a foetus with Downs Syndrome to be terminated up to birth, but not a foetus with same sex attraction?
Ah o yes sorry, same sex attraction isn't ever at all detectable either
I answered this. You didn't understand the answer, even though you agreed (sort of) with both points I made. That isn't my problem.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
So why does UK law allow a foetus with Downs Syndrome to be terminated up to birth, but not a foetus with Swyer sundrome?
Swyer Syndrome is detectable in the womb isnt it?

Why the hatred and prejudice against people with Downs Syndrome? Why celebrate the achievements of people with Downs Syndromes who manage to escape being killed in the womb in the Paraolympics? Bit double faced isnt it?
You forget that all UK law is focused entirely on the pregnant woman. UK law allows abortion up to 24 weeks. In exceptional circumstances, abortion is allowed up to term. These circumstances include severe abnormality of the foetus detected late in pregnancy and threats to the life or health of the woman. Downs is included in this. As you will be aware from the recent ruling, the decision is that this does not discriminate against Downs children for the simple reason that they have no rights at all until birth, just like other unborn. Different parents will face having a severely disabled child in different ways. Some will embrace the challenge, others will decide to abort. The foetus itself gets no say.

As Swyer syndrome would be detectable much earlier, I doubt the issue has been tested. It is possible that this too would be classed as a severe disability, though I doubt it.
 

BMS

Well-known member
I answered this. You didn't understand the answer, even though you agreed (sort of) with both points I made. That isn't my problem.
Its all our problem, and a major one at that. Gender identity is not detectable ever at all, in the womb or outside because it doesn't exist. We have male athletes (detectable) with Downs Syndrome (detectable) competing in male sporting events and men (detectable) posing as 'transwomen' (not detectable) competing in women's events.
 

BMS

Well-known member
You forget that all UK law is focused entirely on the pregnant woman.
You forget that the protected characteristics of UK Equality law includes sex, gender reassignment and religious belief, and that it doesn't have gender identity. You try to hide behind laws that you even always understand.

UK law allows abortion up to 24 weeks.
No it allows it up until birth as we have just seen.

In exceptional circumstances, abortion is allowed up to term.
So abortion is allowed up to birth then.
You see for someone like you who thinks a man who calls himself a 'transwoman' can be a man or a woman, it probably isnt too much of a stretch to say abortion allowed only up to 24 weeks is allowed up until birth.

As you will be aware from the recent ruling, the decision is that this does not discriminate against Downs children for the simple reason that they have no rights at all until birth, just like other unborn
hello? Other unborn humans who dont have rights arent getting killed up to birth. You have no idea what you are talking about.

The BBC pronouncement was "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome." However we have so many with Downs Syndrome who aren't seriously handicapped and live fulfilled lives. So thats nonsense
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Where is the Equality for foetuses with Downs Syndrome to be able to also be aborted by the choice of their mother only up to 24 weeks.
There is equality with all serious birth defects.
Where is the Diversity when only foetuses with Downs Syndrome can be aborted after 24 weeks, what about equality for gay and lesbian foetuses?
It isn't just Downs, it's all seriously disabilities. Being gay or lesbian is neither detectable in the womb nor is it a disability of any kind, let alone a serious one.

Where is the inclusion when only foetuses with Downs Syndrome can be aborted up to birth and not foetuses who will become people with gender identity disorder.
Gender identity disorder is a concept from your fevered imagination. Everyone has a gender identity. Those few people whose gender identity does not match their sex are not disordered. The disordered are those who get panicked by the existence of such people. Downs syndrome is a serious, potentially life-limiting disability.

So much for ED&I

So much for equality of outcome.
So much for your understanding and knowledge of biology, medicine and the law.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Its all our problem, and a major one at that. Gender identity is not detectable ever at all, in the womb or outside because it doesn't exist. We have male athletes (detectable) with Downs Syndrome (detectable) competing in male sporting events and men (detectable) posing as 'transwomen' (not detectable) competing in women's events.
No, this isn't a problem, because the problem doesn't exist. There are no male athletes competing in women's sports events. All sports are regulated. If the regulating authorities allow a person to compete, then they can. You and your petty short-sighted prejudices have no say.
 

BMS

Well-known member
No, this isn't a problem, because the problem doesn't exist.
Except it does exist as we have just seen so it is a problem.

There are no male athletes competing in women's sports events.
You cant tell whether a man who calls himself a 'transwoman' is a man or a woman, so you cant tell the difference. In your ignorance I can assure there are.

The prejudice is because Downs syndrome can be aborted up until birth and clearly from Heidi Crowter its not a serious disability. Certainly not in my opinion as someone with woke ideology.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
You forget that the protected characteristics of UK Equality law includes sex, gender reassignment and religious belief, and that it doesn't have gender identity. You try to hide behind laws that you even always understand.
Both untrue and irrelevant to abortion law.

No it allows it up until birth as we have just seen.
Try to at least finish reading my sentence before leaping in with a stupid answer.

So abortion is allowed up to birth then.
In certain exceptional circumstances.
You see for someone like you who thinks a man who calls himself a 'transwoman' can be a man or a woman, it probably isnt too much of a stretch to say abortion allowed only up to 24 weeks is allowed up until birth.
You are either making a complete fool of yourself here, or... Well I can't think of any other reason why you would post this.

hello? Other unborn humans who dont have rights arent getting killed up to birth. You have no idea what you are talking about.
Hello? Any unborn human can be aborted later than 24 weeks IF it is shown to have a severe disability AND the parent(s) decide to abort.

The BBC pronouncement was "there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped", which includes Down's syndrome." However we have so many with Downs Syndrome who aren't seriously handicapped and live fulfilled lives. So thats nonsense
Do you have any idea how severe Downs can be? Obviously not. There is indeed a substantial risk that any child born with Downs will be severely handicapped. Your understanding of the subject is clearly nonsense.
 

BMS

Well-known member
There is equality with all serious birth defects.
Except Heidi Crowter could have been aborted up to birth and she hasnt got serious birth defects. Are you saying she has?
Being gay or lesbian is neither detectable in the womb nor is it a disability of any kind, let alone a serious one.
in your opinion. But Downs syndrome usually isnt either so why do you discriminate against Downs but not against transactivists?

Gender identity disorder is a concept from your fevered imagination.
Its mentioned in the Gender recognition act so that anotehr one of your deranged personal attacks.
Everyone has a gender identity.
Many people do not have a gender identity. Get used to it. Its a faulty social construct that many know is a lie.
Those few people whose gender identity does not match their sex are not disordered.
There are not disordered because their sex is their sex, their disorder is the imaginary gender identity
Downs syndrome is a serious, potentially life-limiting disability.
According to transactivists so is gender identity because they have mental health issues, so you are in ignorance there. And as we see with Heidi that isnt her case as so you have discriminated against all people with Downs Syndrome.

So much for your understanding and knowledge of biology, medicine and the law, and logic, and reality.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Both untrue and irrelevant to abortion law.
Proven true and crucial.
You need to come to terms with all your contradictions, and NOT just keep lurching to more of them.

In certain exceptional circumstances.
So abortion IS allowed up until birth then. You are either making a complete fool of yourself as usual.

Hello? Any unborn human can be aborted later than 24 weeks
Not so. Again there are exceptions.
IF it is shown to have a severe disability AND the parent(s) decide to abort.
Firstly are you sure?
  • that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.
Now, you yourself have implied all Downs Syndrome is severe. Clearly with Heidi that isnt the case.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Proven true and crucial.
You need to come to terms with all your contradictions, and NOT just keep lurching to more of them.


So abortion IS allowed up until birth then. You are either making a complete fool of yourself as usual.


Not so. Again there are exceptions.

Firstly are you sure?
  • that there is a substantial risk that if the child were born it would suffer from such physical or mental abnormalities as to be seriously handicapped.
Now, you yourself have implied all Downs Syndrome is severe. Clearly with Heidi that isnt the case.
You are deluded. Not all Downs children are severely disabled, but there is a substantial risk that any child born with Downs will be severely disabled. Don't you understand that "substantial risk" does not mean the same thing as "always"?
 

BMS

Well-known member
You are deluded. Not all Downs children are severely disabled, but there is a substantial risk that any child born with Downs will be severely disabled. Don't you understand that "substantial risk" does not mean the same thing as "always"?
We have seen how deluded you are in all of this. Sure not all people with Downs Syndrome are severely disabled as I showed you with Heidi. Your position however implied they were. Abortion does occur legally in the UK up until birth and even for Downs Syndrome which isnt severely disabled.
Your position was exposed two or three times again, not least where you said abortion is up to 24 weeks, but of course it can be up until birth. You suggested again that everyone has a gender identity but you yourself know form this forum not everyone does.
You suggested that the unborn has no rights and yet the unborn with Downs can be killed up until birth where other unborn cant.

All the usual woke self gratifying contradictions
 
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