Is it okay to murder a baby that has been born if its parents are extremely poor and the baby will have a bad life?

[J regia]

Prove it. Quote the text of those verses that mention abortion. Numbers 5 doesn't even mention pregnancy. You have to be pregnant before you can have an abortion.

Good job, moderators.

Do you have any evidence that adulteresses never become pregnant?
Either way, why didn't the writers of Numbers 5:20-28 also command male adulterers to drink a "bitter water" medication and say "so be it, so be it" too, if you believe that commandment was just about sore thighs and upset stomachs?
And what was the fate of the pregnancy when a pregnant adulteress was executed (Lev 20:10)?

Numbers 5:20-28 NIV -
But if you have gone astray(A) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(B)—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[a] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(C) that brings a curse(D) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(E)”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll(F) and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord(G) and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[b] offering(H) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.(I) 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

 

[vibise]

One has nothing to do with the other. You can be pro-life and still be pro-Constitution, and you can be pro-life and still believe in helping someone without outsourcing them to a government bureaucracy.

There are many more families in need than your help could possibly take care of. That is why we pull together and pool our resources to ensure that all such families get the assistance they need. This is what govt is for, unless conservatives act to cut those programs.

 

[Whateverman]

Quick! Complain until a living baby leaves the birth canal, and then deny the unwanted child public assistance while calling yourself "pro-life".

One has nothing to do with the other.

They are absolutely related.

Most people who call themselves "pro life" are merely "pro birth", and don't care what happens to the unwanted child after its born.

 

[J regia]

Only if you're chopping the person on life support up into little pieces and then vacuuming him up.

Pregnancies are terminated in hospitals by inducing labour with a medication.

 

[john james]

Is it okay to murder a baby that has been born if its parents are extremely poor and the baby will have a bad life?

If an abortion fails, is it okay to murder the baby after it is born?

Most Christians are pro womb to the tomb. They are not only pro birth, they are also pro life. What many of Christians are not is pro high lifestyles. If the child happens to have a high lifestyle then there is nothing wrong with that but Christians aren't paying for that. A high lifestyle is the parents responsible if they want that for their children. And despite if they were ready for children or not. Many Christians give to help take of children after birth (helping with the necessities) but some people lie and make it seem they do not. They give this false perception that Christian don't help after birth. The parents have their own responsibility once they have sex. Many bad liberals want sex with freedom from the consequences. They use abortion as just another contraceptive.

 

[BMS]

They are absolutely related.

Most people who call themselves "pro life" are merely "pro birth", and don't care what happens to the unwanted child after its born.

Wow. Firstly your assumption isnt backed up by any evidence and more importantly you support the human being killed so what on earth do you mean by 'care'?

 

[DeSanto]

Right, because to the RW the people that do not matter are pregnant women.

As if RW want to murder pregnant women?

 

[Mike McK]

There are many more families in need than your help could possibly take care of. That is why we pull together and pool our resources to ensure that all such families get the assistance they need. This is what govt is for, unless conservatives act to cut those programs.

First, you don't get together and pool your resources.

You just outsource your charitable obligations to the poor.

All we ever hear from you is about how we should get the poor caught in a government bureaucracy that subsidized their poverty. You've never said one word about you would help anyone.

And when somebody does help them, you mock and slander them.

Sorry, but you don't get to say, "Screw the Bible. Screw the Constitution. Let the government take care of those dirty poor people" and then pretend you're helping.

We're the ones running the charities. We're the ones running the homeless shelters, the food banks, the training programs, the crisis pregnancy centers, not you. You just say, "Let the government feed them".

You consider the poor a commodity to be politicized, not people to be loved. There is no love in you.

 

[Mike McK]

As if RW want to murder pregnant women?

Remember, it was the "LF" who turned millions of women over to the Taliban to be subjugated, raped, stoned, murdered, etc.

And Vibise voted for it because she cares more that her political team win than she does about human rights.

 

[Mike McK]

They are absolutely related.

Most people who call themselves "pro life" are merely "pro birth", and don't care what happens to the unwanted child after its born.

So you say. I'm literally looking at a picture of our adopted daughter and another of her mother as I'm reading your post that says we don't care.

 

[Mike McK]

Do you have any evidence that adulteresses never become pregnant?\

Never claimed they didn't. All I said is that the passage you claimed was about abortion doesn't even mention pregnancy.

Either way, why didn't the writers of Numbers 5:20-28 also command male adulterers to drink a "bitter water" medication and say "so be it, so be it" too, if you believe that commandment was just about sore thighs and upset stomachs?

Because not every topic is addressed in every verse. It's dishonest of you to cherry pick 8 verses and ask why something is not addressed in those specific verses, while ignoring the many other verses that do address it.

And what was the fate of the pregnancy when a pregnant adulteress was executed (Lev 20:10)?

Leviticus doesn't say the woman is pregnant, only that both the man and women will be put to death.

Numbers 5:20-28 NIV -
But if you have gone astray(A) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”— 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(B)—“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[a] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(C) that brings a curse(D) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.”
“‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(E)”
23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll(F) and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord(G) and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[b] offering(H) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.(I) 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children.

Actually, it doesn't say this. That language is not found anywhere in any of the Hebrew texts. It comes from an NIV version in 1977 that you chose, specifically, because it says what you like, and not because it's correct.

Please show us from the Hebrew where it says anything about a miscarriage. You can't, because you know the editors of the 1977 NIV made it up.

 

[vibise]

First, you don't get together and pool your resources.

You just outsource your charitable obligations to the poor.

All we ever hear from you is about how we should get the poor caught in a government bureaucracy that subsidized their poverty. You've never said one word about you would help anyone.

And when somebody does help them, you mock and slander them.

Sorry, but you don't get to say, "Screw the Bible. Screw the Constitution. Let the government take care of those dirty poor people" and then pretend you're helping.

We're the ones running the charities. We're the ones running the homeless shelters, the food banks, the training programs, the crisis pregnancy centers, not you. You just say, "Let the government feed them".

You consider the poor a commodity to be politicized, not people to be loved. There is no love in you.

Yes, we pool our resources through taxes. This is the most efficient way to get help to the largest number of the needy.

Unlike some others on here, I am not inclined to brag about my charitable donations and volunteer work. And if I did, would you believe me?

And yes I am extremely suspicious of many faith-based charities. As I pointed out earlier, those crisis pregnancy centers lie to women and seek to dissuade them from abortions rather than finding the best path for each woman. I know a physician who was disgusted with the Christian group he worked with in SE Asia who tied medical care to proselytizing.

You have never met me and yet are convinced "there is no love in "me. Is that how Christians in your church behave?

 

[CrowCross]

I stand for getting pre- and post-natal care for all pregnant women which would decrease the third-world level of maternal and infant mortality in states like Texas.
Where are the so called "pro-life" people when it comes to infant mortality? If it is not a fetus, they don't care?

So, life is dependent on your world social level???

 

[CrowCross]

Vibise doesn't believe in standing up for mothers, either, as she condemns and disparages the crisis pregnancy movement at every opportunity.

Vibise sees babies as a problem to be solved, not a child to be loved.

Not a nice person, that Vibise.

I see it as satanic.

 

[vibise]

So, life is dependent on your world social level???

"world social level"?? What does that mean?

And yes, infant and maternal mortality can be addressed by ensuring that all mothers have adequate medical care, which is not the case in the USA.

 

[vibise]

I see it as satanic.

I don't believe in satan.

I think you are welcome to your personal religious beliefs, but you are not welcome to impose those beliefs on the rest of us.

What we do not hear from the anti-abortion side is support for the things that actually reduce abortions like free and easy access to the most effective forms of contraception, medical care for all pregnant women and medically accurate sex ed. Banning abortion does not address the problems that cause women to seek this remedy, but reducing unplanned pregnancies would reduce the demand significantly.

 

[CrowCross]

I don't believe in satan.

I think you are welcome to your personal religious beliefs, but you are not welcome to impose those beliefs on the rest of us.

What we do not hear from the anti-abortion side is support for the things that actually reduce abortions like free and easy access to the most effective forms of contraception, medical care for all pregnant women and medically accurate sex ed. Banning abortion does not address the problems that cause women to seek this remedy, but reducing unplanned pregnancies would reduce the demand significantly.

Abortion is killing babies.

Killing babies is satanic whether you beieve in Satan or not.

 

[Mike McK]

Yes, we pool our resources through taxes.

That's not pooling your resources. That's the government taking money from you for something it isn't allowed to do, and which isn't its responsibility.

Unlike some others on here, I am not inclined to brag about my charitable donations and volunteer work. And if I did, would you believe me?

Honestly,edit, I wouldn't.

And it's not just that you won't talk about your charitable donations, it's that you slander and disparage our charitable works.

Somebody who cared about people would not disparage and condemn attempts to help them. You do.

And yes I am extremely suspicious of many faith-based charities.

Many pagans are. But that you're suspicious doesn't make your slanderous claims true.

As I claimed with no evidence earlier, those crisis pregnancy centers lie to women and seek to dissuade them from abortions rather than finding the best path for each woman.

Still waiting on you to tell us what those "lies" are.

I know a physician who was disgusted with the Christian group he worked with in SE Asia who tied medical care to proselytizing.

Yes, I'm sure holistic medicine really turns you off. Is he a real physician, or is he a pretend physician, like you're a pretend PhD in biology?

You have never met me and yet are convinced "there is no love in "me. Is that how Christians in your church behave?

Yes. The Christian in my church conclude there is no love in someone when they support the killing of children and the abandonment of the poor to the government.

 

[vibise]

Abortion is killing babies.

Killing babies is satanic whether you beieve in Satan or not.

Well then, almost a million women a year would be charged with murder along with their abortion providers. This does not happen.

Whether satan exists or not is irrelevant.

 

[vibise]

That's not pooling your resources. That's the government taking money from you for something it isn't allowed to do, and which isn't its responsibility.

Honestly, you lie so often, I wouldn't.

And it's not just that you won't talk about your charitable donations, it's that you slander and disparage our charitable works.

Somebody who cared about people would not disparage and condemn attempts to help them. You do.

Many pagans are. But that you're suspicious doesn't make your slanderous claims true.

Still waiting on you to tell us what those "lies" are.

Yes, I'm sure holistic medicine really turns you off. Is he a real physician, or is he a pretend physician, like you're a pretend PhD in biology?

Yes. The Christian in my church conclude there is no love in someone when they support the killing of children and the abandonment of the poor to the government.

I already provided a list of 4-5 lies that pregnancy centers tell the women who mistake these centers for medical clinics.

You do not help people by telling them falsehoods.

And yes, my friend is a pediatrician in the largest group in my area. Highly respected.

Do you have anything to offer but insults?