Is it okay to murder a baby that has been born if its parents are extremely poor and the baby will have a bad life?

Mike McK

Well-known member
I already provided a list of 4-5 lies that pregnancy centers tell the women who mistake these centers for medical clinics.
OK. Let's see them. And be sure to show your evidence.
And yes, my friend is a pediatrician in the largest group in my area. Highly respected.
Can other people see your "friend"? Does your "friend" even tell you to hurt yourself or others?
Do you have anything to offer but insults?
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CrowCross

Super Member
Well then, almost a million women a year would be charged with murder along with their abortion providers. This does not happen.

Whether satan exists or not is irrelevant.
More unborn babies killed than what they say covid killed in America.

So sad.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Doesn't change anything, and obviously describes the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses and is not about upset stomachs and sore thighs.
There's nothing in the text to indicate that the woman is pregnant.
If you believe otherwise, where does the bible condemn abortion and describes it as murder?
Non sequitur.
And after all the bible also commands genocide and the butchering of children and the unborn (Deut 7:1-2) and as described in Josh 6:21 7:20 8;26
Actually, it doesn't. That's a prophecy, not a command.
And why doesn't Numbers 5:20-28 also command male adulterers to drink a "bitter water" medication and say "so be it, so be it" if you believe Numbers 5:20-28 is only about aching thighs and stomachs?
Irrelevant. The issue here is that there is no evidence in the text to suggest it's about abortion.
But where does the bible say that pregnant adulteresses can't be executed as commanded, and what is the fate of a pregnancy if the adulteress is pregnant?
Irrelevant. This is about Numbers 5 and your claim that it's about abortion, in spite of the fact that nothing in the text suggests the woman is pregnant.
There are plenty of other biblical versions which also describe that commandment as being about the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses.
First, if there were, you would have cited them the first time I pointed out to you that the NIV is wrong.

Second, it doesn't matter. If it's not found in the Hebrew, then anything that suggests it's about pregnancy is wrong.
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
Why should it since the writers of that commandment obviously knew that adulteresses become pregnant without reliable contraceptive techniques.
The issue isn't what you think they believed or knew, but what they wrote. And they did not write anything to indicate that the woman is pregnant.
You're just grasping at straws
No, I'm just going by the text.
IOW you can't show where the bible specifically condemns abortion.
IOW, you brought up Numbers 5 and now that it's been explained to you that Numbers, you're trying to change the subject.
Nonsense. Deut 7:1-2 clearly commands genocide including the butchering of children and the unborn and as described in Josh 6:21 7:20 8:26.
So you claim. But you also claimed Numbers 5 is about abortion when the woman isn't even pregnant.
But what is the fate of a pregnancy if a pregnant adulteress is commanded to drink a "bitter water" medication and say "so be it, so be it" and if she is then executed as commanded in Lev 20:20?
or are you just grasping at straws?
Irrelevant. You said Numbers 5 is about abortion.
Why don't you look them up yourself if you're actually interested and not just trying to grasp at straws?
Or perhaps you could ask your local Rabbi what the purpose and meaning of that Hebrew commandment is
Because all a rabbi is going to do is tell me that there's nothing in the text that suggests she's pregnant.
.

Numbers 5:20-28 ERV -
20 But if you have sinned against your husband—if you had sexual relations with a man who is not your husband—then you are not pure. 21 If that is true, you will have much trouble when you drink this special water. You will not be able to have any children. And if you are pregnant now, your baby will die.[a] And the Lord will cause your people to speak evil of you and curse you.’
“Then the priest must tell the woman to make an oath. She must agree for the Lord to cause these things to happen to her if she lies. 22 The priest must say, ‘You must drink this water that causes trouble. If you have sinned, you will not be able to have children. Any baby you have will die before it is born.’ And the woman should say, ‘I agree to do as you say.’
23 “The priest should write these warnings on a scroll. Then he should wash the words off into the water. 24 Then the woman must drink the water that brings trouble. This water will enter her and, if she is guilty, it will cause her much suffering.
25 “Then the priest will take the grain offering from her (the offering for jealousy) and raise it before the Lord. Then he will carry it to the altar. 26 The priest will fill his hands with some of the grain and put it on the altar and let it burn there. After that he will tell the woman to drink the water. 27 If the woman has sinned against her husband, the water will bring her trouble. The water will go into her body and cause her much suffering. Any baby that is in her will die before it is born, and she will never be able to have children. All the people will turn against her.[b] 28 But if the woman has not sinned against her husband and she is pure, the priest will say that she is not guilty. Then she will be normal and able to have children.
Not in the text. The original text says nothing about a baby.

The bottom line is this: I don't care what somebody made up. If it doesn't appear in the text, then it doesn't appear in the text;
 

vibise

Well-known member
OK. Let's see them. And be sure to show your evidence.

Can other people see your "friend"? Does your "friend" even tell you to hurt yourself or others?

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Post #250 on the thread "Texas almost completely bans abortion"

Here is what I listed:
From what I have seen, the anti-abortion side are the ones involved in deception.
They have promulgated the false ideas that abortions lead to infertility, cancer and mental health problems.
They have falsely claimed that fetuses under 24 weeks can feel pain.
They use sonograms to try to guilt women into having the baby, and do not use that medical tool to screen for fetal abnormalities.
They set up crisis pregnancy centers that look like medical clinics, but are in existence for the sole reason to convince women not to abort.

There are plenty of places to get facts about pregnancy and abortion, but the anti-abortionists are not a source for facts.\
Which of these things does your pregnancy center NOT do or say?
 

Mike McK

Well-known member
IOW you're just grasping at straws and can't tell us where the bible specifically condemns abortion, and what the purpose and meaning of the commandment in Numbers 5:20-28 is, and why you claim that the commandment isn't about the termination of pregnancies of adulteresses since adulteresses never become pregnant.

And even Blind Freddy can see that if the adulteress isn't pregnant then the "bitter water" medication will have no effect on her as described in Numbers 5:20-28, which is why male adulterers are not also commanded to drink the "bitter water" medication.

Alas the only one you are trying to fool with that straw grasping and obfuscations is just yourself
Unless you can show where in the text it says she's pregnant, I don't care.
 

BMS

Well-known member
But perhaps you can tell us why male adulterers weren't also commanded to drink a "bitter water" medication, and what effect it would have on them if they did drink a "bitter water" medication as commanded for adulteresses (Numbers 5:20-28)?
He said he doesnt care, and neither do I. Your posts are just repeatedly unsubstantiated falsehoods
 

vibise

Well-known member
Legal mumbo jumbo. How "scientific" of you....
It is a fact that fetuses are not regarded as persons under the law with the same privileges as people who are born.
This has nothing to do with science, but does have to do with reality.
 

vibise

Well-known member
Also wrong of her. Most states have consider the killing or harm of an unborn child to be a punishable offense.
Sure, plenty of states have considered this, but when the laws they pass ban abortion before 24 weeks or set ridiculous roadblocks, they have been challenged in court as unconstitutional.
 

BMS

Well-known member
It is a fact that fetuses are not regarded as persons under the law with the same privileges as people who are born.
This has nothing to do with science, but does have to do with reality.
It is a fact that children are not considered as adults under the law with the same privileges as adults.
So the human has different rights at different stages of their life. .. except for the unborn human with your persecution of them. Told you this
 
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