Blessings8
Well-known member
Amen.
Is it Possible?
- Thread starter RayneBeau
- Start date
Stella1000
Well-known member
The Church knows this examination is more important than anything and has a dedicated process for investigating miracles. Padre Pio and the amazing miracles that God performed through him, comes to mind. Ordinary people don't have the means to investigate such things which is why I ask about how miracles are ratified outside the Church?
Yes we have seen how they have failed to do so.
A new day
Super Member
Oh yes we do have the means to investigate where the message of a miracle is coming from. We are told in Scripture to test the person's words, and the fruit of their lives. This padre pio made himself out to be someone great, so he would receive special recognition and glory.
The apostles in their life time, never, ever practiced "Stigmata" or any other miracle that would have people thinking they, themselves were something special and worthy of adulation. As a matter of fact, they flat out discouraged anyone from thinking of them as some one great or special.
They always directed people to Christ, NEVER to themselves. We are to check everything we see, everything we hear, and everything we read, to see if the message and fruit lines up with Scripture. We know from what Scripture teaches that "stigma" is a false miracle, and that this padre pio is a false teacher. This man's fruit, went against Scripture.
A new day
Super Member
Jesus taught two different truths. RayneBeau did NOT quote from Matthew 25:41-46, but Matthew 7:21-23.
Lets begin with verse 15-20 of Matthew 7
“Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
False prophets and teachers, hope to obtain power and authority for themselves by their connection to Christ; Jesus himself is not their greatest need and desire.
Verse 21-23 of Matthew 7
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’
The same can be said about the rcc. rc's only needed Jesus, to get a foot in the door, then obtain salvation through their own efforts. Thus never really knowing Jesus intimately. What Jesus is getting at in these passages is that just because a person has a connection to His name and performs good works, does not automatically grant them the priviledge to be with Him. To truly know Him is to live IN Him, abiding in Him and TRUST in Him exclusively.
But to truly know Him intimately we must be "born again" and when we are born again from above, we will desire to know and trust Him more deeply and intimately. NOT just initually, and then attempt to gain eternal life by trusting in an institution. Jesus commands us to come to HIM for rest.... NOT go to mary or an institution.
bluedog1us
Well-known member
Yes God performs miracles every day. Men don't.
Stella1000
Well-known member
When you testify to Gods miraculous deeds among todays Christians, which particular miracles do you testify to or is it just theoretical thing unlike the actual cases that the Scripture writers testified to?
Stella1000
Well-known member
God does work miracles through men though.
Acts 19 11-12 God did powerful things through Paul, things quite out of the ordinary. The word got around and people started taking pieces of clothing—handkerchiefs and scarves and the like—that had touched Paul’s skin and then touching the sick with them. The touch did it—they were healed and whole.
A new day
Super Member
John cautioned believers to not believe everything they see or hear, but examine it carefully to see where it came from
1 John 4:1
Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world.
NOT every miracle is from God. There are many counterfeits. How do I know there are counterfeit miracles? Scripture teaches that they exist.
Miracles can be counterfeited. That is why God points us to Scripture. Signs and wonders can lead us astray. Scripture, however, will always light the true path. Scripture tells us to examine what the individual is teaching and see if what he or she is saying lines up with what God says. We are to seek Jesus, not miracles.
No matter how convincing a miracle is, we must still check to see if the person performing the miracles; that what they teach lines up with what Scripture says. If the individual is teaching contrary to Scripture, then we must assume that the individual is a counterfeit messenger and his/her works of miracles are NOT coming from God, no matter how convincing those miracles are or how many.
A true messenger from God, will always point people into the direction of Christ. Not to themselves, or anyone else, other than Christ. We must test them by their Christology and by the fruit they bear.
Stella1000 said:
When you testify to Gods miraculous deeds among todays Christians, which particular miracles do you testify to or is it just theoretical thing unlike the actual cases that the Scripture writers testified to?
-------------------------- end Stella quote
Stella; Stella, Stella
have you never read
are you so ignorant of the truths of Scripture
Stella;
God does not use men such as all the """Saints" of the RCC
When you testify to Gods miraculous deeds among todays Christians, which particular miracles do you testify to or is it just theoretical thing unlike the actual cases that the Scripture writers testified to?
-------------------------- end Stella quote
Stella; Stella, Stella
have you never read
Eziekiel 5:3
Thou shalt also take thereof a few in number,
and bind them in thy skirts.
Matt.9:20
20 And, behold, a woman,
which was diseased with an issue of blood twelve years,
came behind him, and touched the hem of his garment:
21 For she said within herself,
If I may but touch his garment, I shall be whole.
-----------On the Road to Mans Redemption -------Matt.14:34
And when they were gone over,
they came into the land of Gennesaret.
35 And when the men of that place had knowledge of him,
they sent out into all that country round about,
and brought unto him all that were diseased;
36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment:
and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.
why Oh why;are you so ignorant of the truths of Scripture
Stella;
God does not use men such as all the """Saints" of the RCC
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Stella1000
Well-known member
Exactly, which is why the Church has such a dedicated ministry in affirming or denying miracles. The 3 little children of Fatima were grilled very intensely with regard to their testimony, their honesty and ultimately the fruits they bore. It was an ongoing testing from day one.
From what I can understand from what nonCC's say, it boils down to each persons own self 'expertise' in translation of Scripture but in there end are there any miracles to point to now? I've yet to see a miracle presented as per Scripture in testament to God working in people today. It has faded from modern nonCC witness.
Stella1000
Well-known member
Where are the miracles now then? Did miracles cease with the Apostles and if so where is that stated in Scripture?
bluedog1us
Well-known member
Quite a difference between apostles and the rest of mankind. Apostles were given powers to do miracles. I don't know of one person raised from death by anyone since their time.
Bonnie
Super Member
The vision at Fatima was demonic in nature. It was fairly easy for non-Catholics like me to determine that. One of the things the apparition said was that the world needed to become more dedicated to her "immaculate heart," building churches dedicated to her, if I remember right. Here is what it said: ""You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go. To save them, God wishes to establish in the world devotion to my Immaculate Heart. If what I say to you is done, many souls will be saved".
(from celticorthodoxchurch.com)
Right then and there, I knew that this vision did not come from God. The world needs to turn to Jesus Christ, repent of its sins, and become devoted to HIM--not His mother! And there are other clues that prove that this apparition was demonic in nature.
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pilgrim
Well-known member
Gal 6:17 From now on, let no one cause me trouble, for I bear on my body the marks of Jesus.
Bonnie
Super Member
Are you suggesting Paul had stigmata?
As much as Richard Wurmbrand did!
2Co 11:24-25 KJV Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one. Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, ...
But in both cases, the marks were given by the enemies of God...
--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
Bonnie
Super Member
I thought of that. Those are the marks of Jesus Paul bore. He was also nearly stoned to death.
Did you ever read Wurmbrand's book?
Yes, and he visited my church to speak one time. (LONG time ago.) He displayed the marks (scars) which he still bore on his back. ?
--Rich