Is Jehovah His Name?

Towerwatchman

Active member
Ancient Jews had a superstitious dread of pronouncing the name YHWH. They feared any pronunciation of YHWH was a violation of the third commandment, so they substituted Adonai in its place. Over time the pronunciation was lost, and since the pronunciation was lost and Hebrew is written without vowels, the vowels were lost also.

Over time it was copied with Adonai wrote above YHWH, and as Kyrios in the Septuagint. Masoretes = [6-11 century scribes and scholars living in Jerusalem and Tiberius] attempted to fix divisions of Jewish Bibles for the worldwide Jewish community. They combined the vowels of Adonai [ADONIA] with YHWH to produce Yahowah. During the Reformation, when the church was headquartered in Germany Yahowah was Germanized to Jahovah = Jehovah by substituting the J for Y and V for W. Other names such as Yosef to Joseph, Yud to Jude, Yob to Job were also Germanized. Jehovah is not found in the Septuagint, Samaritan Pentateuch, Apocrypha, or early manuscripts of the New Testament.

It is one thing to say that we suspect, we assume, we conclude, that Jehovah is the name of God. It is another to claim without a doubt that Jehovah is the name of God. Also if Jehovah is truly and definitely the name of God where and when did the WTS discover the vowels?
 

101G

Well-known member
Is Jehovah His Name? answer.... NO, supportive scripture, Isaiah 52:5 "Now therefore, what have I here, saith the LORD, that my people is taken away for nought? they that rule over them make them to howl, saith the LORD; and my name continually every day is blasphemed."
Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I." and that day was when our Lord Jesus, God, came in flesh, .... in his "Father'd Name, supportive scripture, John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins." there it is, "I am he"

shall is a future tense designation, meaning God's people will know his PERSONAL "NAME" which was to come, "YESHUA", or as we say today, "JESUS", in English.

because, "YHWH", or "I AM THAT I AM" is what he is and not who he is, because H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. is a verb, and not a noun. end of story right there.

Who vs What in a name
understand Moses asked God "WHAT" is his name and not WHO he is in Name. because what he is identifies his titles, appellation, and his epithet, and not his actual name. what he is, LORD, ,,, Lord, .... Father, .... Son. ..... King, ... Saviour, ..... Redeemer, .... and Creator ..ect..... all these are title of, of, of, his name. example "Lord" Jesus. Lord is "what" he is, and "Jesus" is "who" he is.

a clear example of WHAT vs Who in a name is revealed in the first woman Name. if I would ask, "WHAT is the first woman name?" one might say EVE, well you would be in error, why? because I asked "WHAT" is here name, just like Moses asked God "WHAT" is your name. see, the woman name as to what she is, .... "Adam", scripture, Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;" Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created." confirmed, Adam is WHAT the Male and female are, not "WHO", but "WHAT" they are, MANkind. but if I would have asked, "WHO is the first woman name?", answer, EVE, because EVE is her PERSONAL NAME, as to "WHO" she is. and not what she is, a Adam.

so God never gave his personal name in the OT, only until he manifested in Flesh did he reveal his PERSONAL NAME.... John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."

well Jesus, or Yeshua is not Jehovah that he came in.

so no, God's name is not jehovah, but, YESHUA, Hebrew, and JESUS, English.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings 101G,
God's name is not jehovah, but, YESHUA, Hebrew, and JESUS, English.
I do not agree with your conclusion as the two quotations of "I am he" are not referring to Exodus 3:14, but have their own context. I believe that Yahweh is most probably close to the correct rendition of the YHWH Name.

The following is a consideration of the Yahweh Name that was revealed in Exodus 3:14. It is hoped that the following comments will help to explain some of the language of both the OT and NT and the true role of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God.

The Name of God was revealed to Moses in the following terms:
Exodus 3:14-15 (KJV): 14 And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Most translations and commentators accept the present tense “I am that I am”, but notice in the margin of the RV (or ASV) and RSV, an alternative is given “I will be that I will be” or “I will be what I will be”, showing that some modern scholars suggest this alternative reading. Although not popular it appears that this future tense is the correct translation. Not only modern scholars, Tyndale also translated this in the future tense.
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.

The word “ehyeh” is in Exodus 3:14 and is the same in the earlier statement in v12, and here the translators give the future tense:
Exodus 3:12 (KJV): And he said, Certainly I will be with thee; and this shall be a token unto thee, that I have sent thee: When thou hast brought forth the people out of Egypt, ye shall serve God upon this mountain.
Not only does this fix the tense, it also introduces the concept that the Name of God is also associated with some future activity.

This future tense and future activity was to be God acting to deliver Israel out of Egypt, so that Israel would become a people for His Name. They would be a living witness to the purpose of God, and a witness to the existence of God. The following passage emphasises this future work in delivering Israel with the future aspect of the Name:
Exodus 6:1-8 (KJV): 1 Then the LORD said unto Moses, Now shalt thou see what I will do to Pharaoh: for with a strong hand shall he let them go, and with a strong hand shall he drive them out of his land. 2 And God spake unto Moses, and said unto him, I am the LORD: 3 And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH (or Yahweh) was I not known to them. 4 And I have also established my covenant with them, to give them the land of Canaan, the land of their pilgrimage, wherein they were strangers. 5 And I have also heard the groaning of the children of Israel, whom the Egyptians keep in bondage; and I have remembered my covenant. 6 Wherefore say unto the children of Israel, I am the LORD, and I will bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians, and I will rid you out of their bondage, and I will redeem you with a stretched out arm, and with great judgments: 7 And I will take you to me for a people, and I will be to you a God: and ye shall know that I am the LORD your God, which bringeth you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians. 8 And I will bring you in unto the land, concerning the which I did swear to give it to Abraham, to Isaac, and to Jacob; and I will give it you for an heritage: I am the LORD.

When Israel was delivered out of Egypt the Name of God remains the same, but the particular activity has been accomplished:
Exodus 15:1-3 (KJV): 1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto the LORD, and spake, saying, I will sing unto the LORD, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea. 2 The LORD is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation: he is my God, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father’s God, and I will exalt him. 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.
The future tense of Gods Name He will be or become has been accomplished, and Yahweh had become Israel’s salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

101G

Well-known member
@TrevorL ,

GINOLJC, to all,
First thanks for the reply, second, we disagree with that assessment, and here's why. while Moses was talking to God in Exodus 6:3 as you posted above, he God said this, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
well God cannot lie ... right, Good lets see the lie that men put in Abraham mouth, as is today. Genesis 22:14 "And Abraham called the name of that place Jehovahjireh: as it is said to this day, In the mount of the LORD it shall be seen." well now, how come Abraham got this name, whom God said Abraham did not know him by, in his mouth? well, see your mistake as well as, Most translations and commentators, as you stated above. even the JW who suppose to be experts on the name jehovah fell for the same lie in Genesis 22:14, for they have jehovah there.

see either God is lying, (God forbid), we know God don't lie, or Abraham is lying, (but he's the friend of God), so he's not lying, so how did this name that Abrham did not know get in his mouth? answer those lying scribes and or the translators, one or the other, or both.

so knowing God don't lie, it's men who lie. so lets examine man lie.

(A). Finding a name.
Now that we know that, "I AM", is an emphatic verb, which is a name that describe what God is, so where did the Names Jehovah, and, Yahweh come from?. is not Jehovah, as said, in the bible?. So where did the names come from. these name came from, what is know as the tetragrammaton, and men tampered with it by adding vowels to these four letters. the tetragrammaton is a term from the Greek word, τετραγράμματον, meaning, "a word having four letters". It is the Hebrew written word, or four letters, (יהוה), Yodh, He, Waw, He, hence the translation into English, YHWH, or JHVH by some. these four letters, suppose to be the unpronounced name of God. and from these four letters come the man made names Yahweh, Hebrew, and Jehovah, English.

(B). Building a Name, is it true or a false name.
a name is an Identifier, as to what and, or who you are. we need to clarify the "Truth" here on God's Holy Name. Now the question is, what, or who is God proper/PERSONAL name. is it Jehovah, English or Yahweh, in Hebrew. well it's neither, lets see how they, the translators, derived those names from the tetragrammaton. The word "JEHOVAH" was formed by merging the three vowels (e, o, and a) into the Romanized (Latinized) four letter version JHVH to get, JeHoVaH. and the word "YAHWEH" was formed by merging the vowels (a, and e), into the four letter version to get, YaHWeH. so we have the English man made, and the Hebrew man made form of God's supposed unpronounced name. here is the mistake. they, (the translator, or ie the scribes), added vowels to the four letter consonant, to make up a name to pronounce. one can never add or take away from the WORD of God. they added vowels to give God a personal name, because they knew that YHWH is a verb, and not a noun. and because the suppose name was lost, which the Jews said was forbidden to pronounce, they made a guess at the name where pointers should be. this was a grave mistake on their part. when you add to the word of God you just put the spiritual noose around your neck. arbitrarily, the translators injected the vowels into the four letter consonant to come up with the names, "YaHWeH", and, "JeHoVaH",

as we know, this man made name Jehovah is in the English bible. but is it the correct NAME?. no, notice, it's the Jewish national name of God, only for the Jewish nation. and no one's else, now, definition time,
H3068 יְהוֹוָה Yhovah (yeh-ho-vaw') n/p.
1. (the) self-Existent or Eternal
2. Jehovah, Jewish national name of God
3. (anglicized) Jehovah.
4. (as a name prefix) Yeho-.
5. (As expressed in Hebraic Koine Greek) ἐγώ εἰμί, I AM (literally: I myself, I am).
[from H1961]
KJV: Jehovah, the Lord.

my source for this definition, Mickelson's Enhanced Strong's Dictionaries of the Greek and Hebrew Testaments.
did one see, or notice where this root for the Jewish national name of God come from?. it comes from H1961 הָיָה hayah (haw-yaw) v. which is
“I AM”, which means,
1. to exist
2. to be or become
3. to come into being, i.e. to happen, to occur (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary

also notice where JESUS, or YESHUA come from. it is the Strong's # is (H3442), look this Strong’s number up. it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091

in the Greek, it's G2424 Ἰησοῦς Iesous (ee-ay-sous`) n/p.
1.Jesus (i.e. Jehoshua) of Hebrew origin (H3091)
2.KJV: Jesus
Root(s): H3091
now lets trace the root of this name, H3091, which gets its origins from H3068 which originates from H1961 הָיָה hayah, or “I AM”.
"The Anglicization of God personal name"

What is Anglicization: To make English or similar to English in form, idiom, style, or character. Merriam‑Webster: a transitive verb. 1 to make English in quality or characteristics. 2 : to adapt (a foreign word, name, or phrase) to English usage: as a : to alter to a characteristic English form, sound, or spelling b : to convert (a name) to its English equivalent <anglicize Juan as John>. to put it in layman's terms, the name Jesus, is a transliteration, and not a translation. understand "LORD", or "Lord", or "Father" ect... are Titles, Appellation, and the Epithet of God, which is "WHAT" he is, and not "WHO" he is in Name. now the name, of God KNOWN, as to "WHO" he is.

Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them”. (GOD personal Name is not know, only his titles, LORD, CREATOR...), now his Personal Name is coming, because he is manifesting so that man his creation can see his maker FACE to FACE, and KNOW HIM, by his name.

again, Scripture: Isaiah 52:6 "Therefore my people shall know my name: therefore they shall know in that day that I am he that doth speak: behold, it is I. God made it very clear that when he come, his people will know that it is him. Answer Scripture: John 8:24 "I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins”. BINGO, "I AM HIM" and the name that "I AM HIM" used is JESUS, John 5:43 "I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive."
What is the name he come in? answer, "JESUS"/YESHUA.

so we can see that the Lord Jesus, his name, according to John 8:24 is traced back to “I AM”, or H1961, hayah. so Jehovah, AKA Yahweh is false. let the bible tell us who God is in PERSONAL NAME. Matthew 1:23" Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us”. and since God is with us, what is God PERSONAL NAME. answer, Matthew 1:21" And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins”. can we back this up even in the O.T.?, yes, scripture. Isaiah 35:4 "Say to them that are of a fearful heart, Be strong, fear not: behold, your God will come with vengeance, even God with a recompence; he will come and save you”. Throughout the bible when one encounter the word “salvation”, in how it is used, then you're seeing the coming, "NAME".

JESUS, or YESHUA, Strong's # is (H3442), as said, it is written Yod-Shin-Vav-Ayin, it is a masculine noun that means, "He is salvation" or "He saves”. for only God SAVES. H3442 יֵשׁוַּע Yeshuwa` (yay-shoo'-ah) n/l.
1. he will save.
2. Jeshua, the name of ten Israelites, also of a place in Israel.
[for H3091]
KJV: Jeshua.
Root(s): H3091

now, I will not argue with anyone, and if you choose to use those other MAN MADE name, that your choice.

Have a good day, one might would like to re-read this posting for full edification.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again 101G,
First thanks for the reply, second, we disagree with that assessment, and here's why. while Moses was talking to God in Exodus 6:3 as you posted above, he God said this, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."
My only explanation of this is that even though Abraham actually knew the Name Yahweh, he was more familiar with the title "El Shaddai", and did not know the full significance of the Name Yahweh as it was revealed to Moses, that the Name Yahweh was to be associated with God's deliverance and salvation of the nation of Israel.
What is the name he come in? answer, "JESUS"/YESHUA.
Yes, in a sense, Yahweh was to be revealed in and through Jesus, but the Name of God is not Jesus or Yeshua as this is the name of the human child born to Mary. The derivation of the name Joshua is seen in the following where Moses changed the name of Oshea, meaning “salvation” to Jehoshua “Yah’s salvation”.
Numbers 13:16 (KJV): These are the names of the men which Moses sent to spy out the land. And Moses called Oshea the son of Nun Jehoshua.
Yah is an abbreviated form of the Yahweh Name, and is seen in the following passage:
Isaiah 12:2 (KJV): Behold, God is my salvation; I will trust, and not be afraid: for the LORD (Yah) JEHOVAH (Yahweh) is my strength and my song; he also is become my salvation.

The Name Jesus thus incorporates the Name of God, Yahweh, in an abbreviated form Yah and the word meaning salvation "Yah's salvation".
Matthew 1:20–21 (KJV): 20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit. 21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS (Yah’s salvation): for he shall save his people from their sins.

In my previous post I mentioned that the margin of the Revised Version has "I will be" for Exodus 3:14, and one of the supporters of this rendition could have been AB Davidson as he was one of the Hebrew scholars engaged in the production of the RV. He was most probably overridden by a Trinitarian majority. Please note that I do not endorse all of his theology, as he also was most probably a Trinitarian and also had other wrong ideas, but his Hebrew abilities have been respected and some of his Hebrew books were published in new editions until recently.

The article by AB Davidson is in the Hastings Bible Dictionary Volume 2 page 199:
"The name is connected with the Hebrew ‘hayah’, ‘to be’, in the imperfect. Now with regard to this verb, first, it does not mean ‘to be’ essentially or ontologically, but phenomenally; and secondly the imperfect has not the sense of a present (‘am’) but of a future (‘will be’). In Exodus 3:10ff, when Moses demurred to go to Egypt, God assured him saying, ‘I will be with thee’. When he asked how he should name the God of their fathers to the people, he was told Ehyeh asher Ehyeh. Again he was bidden say, ‘Ehyeh hath sent me unto you’. From all this it seems evident that in the view of the writer Ehyeh and Yahweh are the same: that God is Ehyeh, ‘I will be’, when speaking of Himself and ‘Yahweh’, ‘he will be’, when spoken of by others. What He will be is left unexpressed - He will be with them, helper, strengthener, deliverer."
Now this last comment by AB Davidson ties in with what I suggested that what God would do or be was that Yahweh would be their salvation.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

101G

Well-known member
even though Abraham actually knew the Name Yahweh,
STOP making an excuse, "Abraham actually knew the Name Yahweh" actually? actually nothing, he did not know that name, did you not hear God? Exodus 6:3 "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty, but by my name JEHOVAH was I not known to them."

if jehovaj was not known to Abraham there is no "actually" to even to be considered. see, this is how commentators and lay christians follow a LIE. when God said, PLAIN and SIMPLE Abraham did not know the Name, that's it final case closed.

when one try to change what God said, there come the " LIE". so when God said he, Abraham didn't know...... I believe God.
Yes, in a sense, Yahweh was to be revealed in and through Jesus,
in a sense? there goes the deception... "in a sense". NO, either it is or NOT. it's amazing how people reading plain English and yet try to change the Word of Truth into LIE. when what "AB Davidson", or anyone else say contridict the word of God, then as the apostle Paul by the Holy Spirit, wrote, scripture,
Romans 1:22 "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools," :cry: there it is
Romans 1:23 "And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things."
Romans 1:24 "Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:"
Romans 1:25 "Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie"

well this ends my discussion, when people try to change the truth of God to their belief, I leave them alone.

Good Day,

PICJAG.,101G.
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again 101G,
well this ends my discussion, when people try to change the truth of God to their belief, I leave them alone.
Although you quote a lot, you obviously do not understand this subject and even cannot see some of the errors in the articles you quote. On the other hand if you are not quoting and this is all your own work, then it is poor scholarship and reasoning. I can understand that you do not want to properly address this subject.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

imJRR

Well-known member
?? TrevorL and 101G - Can one of you explain how your posts relate to JW belief and teaching?
 

101G

Well-known member
?? TrevorL and 101G - Can one of you explain how your posts relate to JW belief and teaching?
sure, the Name of God is not Jehovah, for there is no salvation in that name. only the NAME "Yeshua", or "JESUS" is the name to call on to be SAVED.

PICJAG, 101G.
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings imJRR,
?? TrevorL and 101G - Can one of you explain how your posts relate to JW belief and teaching?
Yes, the JWs have adopted the Name Jehovah Witnesses and claim that their use and promulgation of the Name Jehovah is evidence that they are the true end-times religion, guided by the Holy Spirit. I also responded to their use of Jehovah and their claims in the thread JW Book: What Can the Bible Teach Us?
Chapter 15: The right way to worship God
I agree in concept with what is stated in this chapter, including some teachings that are different to many Protestant Churches, but one outcome is that they claim that the JWs are the true religion. Here is one example of this where it is almost stated:
Page 156: “So, as God’s servants we follow Jesus’ example. We worship only Jehovah, we use his name, and we teach others God’s name and what he will do for us.” Comment: This claim is based upon their use of the word “Jehovah”, and I believe that the Name of God is better rendered Yahweh, and it is not only speaking the Name, but what is the meaning of the Name. I do not believe that the JWs fully or correctly understand or teach the meaning of the Name.

Their claim that the JWs are the true religion is explicitly stated on pages 158-159, where there is a list of some of their teachings and practices are listed, and then the following is stated:
Page 158: “After studying these points, ask yourself: Who base their teachings on the Bible? Who tell others about God’s name? Who …? Who …? Who …? It is only Jehovah’s Witnesses Isaiah 43:10-12.” Comment: JWs do not fully base their beliefs on the Bible. They incorrectly use and teach the name “Jehovah”. The witnesses spoken of in Isaiah 43:10-12 was Israel, not the JWs.

Kind regards
Trevor
 

101G

Well-known member
Greetings imJRR,

Yes, the JWs have adopted the Name Jehovah Witnesses and claim that their use and promulgation of the Name Jehovah is evidence that they are the true end-times religion, guided by the Holy Spirit. I also responded to their use of Jehovah and their claims in the thread JW Book: What Can the Bible Teach Us?


Kind regards
Trevor
first thank for the response, but the JW don't even know who they are worshipping their own-self. listen, just an example.... in the book of Revelation God, sent his angel to John to show him the revelation. now the angel in chapter 22 at verse 6 states who sent him, Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done." when they the JW saw the Lord God of the "Holy Prophet", their dark minds went to the OT Jehovah . but,

in the JW bible,(the NWT), it says Jehovah sent the angel. you can go online and read it. and in the SAME chapter at verse 16 they as with everyone bible in print print states ... Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

the Lord JESUS sent the angel, and the JW in verse 6 says "Jehovah" sent the angel, and then a few verse later at verse 16, they say "JESUS" sent the angel... how ignorant can one be.

this is just one example of this nonesense..... there are many many more just like this. but to do this, a MISTAKE in the same chapter only a few verses apart., what was the translators of the NWT was think about?

or maybe they acknowledge that JESUS is their Jehovah. see, this is in PRINT, and if any true believing Godly person, read this and cannot see the LIE ... I'm sorry for them, because for decades the JW have been saying Jesus is Not God. but it's Jesus their Jehovah who sent the angel....

PICJAG, 101G.
 

imJRR

Well-known member
Jesus openly and irrefutably said that seeing Him = Seeing God Himself in John 14:9.

Unless the JW masters have changed/perverted the biblical text in a recent "update", here is John 14:8-9 from the NWT: 8 Philip said to him: “Lord, show us the Father, and it is enough for us.” 9 Jesus said to him: “Even after I have been with you men for such a long time, Philip, have you not come to know me? Whoever has seen me has seen the Father. How is it you say, ‘Show us the Father’?

Question: Who is "the Father"? What/Who is being referred to by that phrase?
Obvious Answer: God Himself. Considering that Philip is a Jew, there is no other possible way to understand the phrase in his question.

And Jesus, using that context, straightforwardly tells Philip, "If you've seen Me, you've seen Him. If you've seen me, you've seen God Himself." There is no other possible way to take that answer.

Seeing Jesus Christ = Seeing God Himself.
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again imJRR,
Question: Who is "the Father"? What/Who is being referred to by that phrase?
The obvious answer is that the Father is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father, and Jesus the Son of God reveals God the Father, "I have manifested Thy Name", not "our Name". Hence if God is his Father, then Jesus is the Son of God. Most Trinitarians claim that Jesus is not God the Father, but God the Son and state that the Father is Not the Son, and the Son is Not the Father (refer their triangular figure). I recommend that this thread should not be turned into a Trinitarian thread. The subject is the JW use and understanding of God's Name, which they incorrectly claim to be or use the word "Jehovah".

Kind regards
Trevor
 

101G

Well-known member
I agree that Jesus is not God, as he is the Son of God. There is One God, Yahweh, God the Father.
if you agree to that, then May I ask you a question, is the person in John 1:3 "Who MADE ALL THINGS", is the same person in Isaiah 44:24 who MADE ALL THINGS. yes or No?

PICJAG, 101G.
 

imJRR

Well-known member
Greetings again imJRR,

The obvious answer is that the Father is the One God, Yahweh, God the Father, and Jesus the Son of God reveals God the Father, "I have manifested Thy Name", not "our Name". Hence if God is his Father, then Jesus is the Son of God. Most Trinitarians claim that Jesus is not God the Father, but God the Son and state that the Father is Not the Son, and the Son is Not the Father (refer their triangular figure). I recommend that this thread should not be turned into a Trinitarian thread. The subject is the JW use and understanding of God's Name, which they incorrectly claim to be or use the word "Jehovah".

Kind regards
Trevor

I never said Jesus was God the Father. Neither did Jesus. Neither does John 14:9. Jesus said what He said to Philip, and what He said was that seeing Him = seeing God Himself. There is no other possible way to take His response. And this irrefutable fact DOES have direct bearing on the JW cult's false view of Jesus. If you wish to talk about the name "Jehovah", that's fine. But what I said is VERY relevant to the false belief and teaching of the Watchtowerites.
 

101G

Well-known member
For all my JW friends, Jesus is God almighty. as I asked before, just reconcile John 1:3 with Isaiah 44:24 and you will see it's the same ONE person who made "ALL THINGS" and,

A. and HE, God, the the LORD Jesus, the Ordinal First, didn't go through anyone because he was "ALONE", and "BY HIMSELF"... hello...

B. there was no Son of God, at Genesis 1:1 nor at Genesis 1:26 when he God, Jesus made man male and female. .... (smile).

now, as we said to the trinitarians, we say to you, there was no son of God at Genesis 1:1 nor at Genesis 1:26 & 27, but JESUS, the "LORD", the Ordinal was there.

so I believe without a doubt that JESUS is both "LORD", the Ordinal First, and "Lord", the Ordinal Last in the ECHAD of the EQUAL SHARE of himself in Flesh,on a G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') state in the LIKENESS of a Man, called christ.

hence the NAME of God... "JESUS" English, and "YESHUA" Hebrew.

PICJAG, 101G
 

TrevorL

Active member
Greetings again imJRR and 101G,
Jesus said what He said to Philip, and what He said was that seeing Him = seeing God Himself. There is no other possible way to take His response.
the NAME of God... "JESUS" English, and "YESHUA" Hebrew.
As stated I am not interested in a full discussion of the Trinity or Oneness on this thread. One verse which Trinitarians and Oneness advocates cannot reconcile with their beliefs is Psalm 110:1 and its numerous NT quotations and expositions which clearly teach that there is One God, Yahweh, God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God, now seated at the right hand of God the Father, in God the Father's Throne Revelation 3:21. If or when either of you come up with a clear and reasonable explanation of this, then I will acknowledge your post. Until then I will leave this aspect of the thread, but reserve the right to discuss the JW use of the erroneous word "Jehovah", their continued insistence on using this error, and this has an impact on whether they are Spirit guided as they claim.

Kind regards
Trevor
 
Top