Is Jesus God? Understanding the "Trinity"

[johnny guitar]

If I said only begotten person would that make sense to you? The soul is the person of anyone. We save souls because that is the part of the human that survives the death of the body. The soul is who we are. The scriptures show that both Jesus and the Father have souls, or beings/persons. They are two distinct persons/souls. The scriptures also make the distinction between the soul and the spirit. The spirit is a different element than the soul. The writer of Hebrews shows us in 4:12, that soul and spirit are distinct and are likened to bone and marrow. They are two different elements that are one. So it is with the Father and Son. They are two distinct persons/souls. They are unified by the one Spirit that is God the Father which is the Holy Spirit. God is one Spirit and He has a person/soul. Like bone and marrow, the souls are a different element from the spirit but are one. Jesus' person/soul was begotten from the Father and unified with the Father's person through the Holy Spirit. We see that unification taking place in Isaiah 42:1. Because the persons of the Father and Son are unified by one Spirit, when the Holy Spirit comes into us, so does the persons of Jesus and the Father. See John 14, verses17,18 and 23.

Man is BOTH body and soul.
The Scriptures do NOT show Father and Son have souls, or persons. Please produce the scriptures which say so.
True, Father and Son are distinct Persons. So????
The ONE Spirit is God. The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit and vice versa.
God does NOT have a person or soul. Incomprehensible mysticism.
The Son is eternally begotten of The Father.
All THREE Persons in The Trinity dwell in all believers.
Strive to keep it simple.

 

[johnny guitar]

Why would he have supemacy over a man who is himself God?

Because He is a MAN.

 

[johnny guitar]

2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."

Trinitarians acknowledge no real human person in Christ.

The coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh???
Hmm. Sounds like Jesus Christ is a REAL MAN, like you and I.

 

[cjab]

The coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh???
Hmm. Sounds like Jesus Christ is a REAL MAN, like you and I.

Actually Jesus the man is a product of Trinitarian philosophy, because substantially Jesus is a divine person with full deific attributes.

 

[Biblican]

Man is BOTH body and soul.
The Scriptures do NOT show Father and Son have souls, or persons. Please produce the scriptures which say so.
True, Father and Son are distinct Persons. So????
The ONE Spirit is God. The Father is NOT The Holy Spirit and vice versa.
God does NOT have a person or soul. Incomprehensible mysticism.
The Son is eternally begotten of The Father.
All THREE Persons in The Trinity dwell in all believers.
Strive to keep it simple.

We have to keep it simple and at the same time we have to be able to support what we teach from the scriptures.
I gave you the scriptures. Go back and re-read my posts.
God is Spirit, one Spirit. Jesus also said that the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of the Father. Matthew 10:20, Therefore, because the Father is one Spirit the Holy Spirit has to be His Spirit. Whenever we have more than one spirit in association with God we have more than one God then we are polytheists. The Holy Spirit is distinct from the Father's person/soul, unified like bone and marrow, two distinct elements that are completely one.
These are the scriptures again that shows that God says Himself that He has a soul/person - Isaiah 42:1, Jeremiah 6:8,32:41, Leviticus 26:11. Please read them. The scriptures are only "incomprehensible mysticism" to people who can't understand them. God says specifically in these scriptures that He has a soul, if you deny that you are saying that God is lying.
Anyone who is begotten has to have a beginning at some point. To be eternally begotten is an oxymoron.
"All Three persons in the Trinity dwell in all believers." That is correct, for the most part. All three dwell in the believer. You said God is a person. The person of anyone is the soul. I thought you didn't believe that.

 

[Biblican]

Why would he have supemacy over a man who is himself God?

While the Father and Son are equal in Spirit, the Father's eternal uncreated person is head over Jesus' begotten soul, as Paul said, "God is the head of Christ." I don't have my Bible with me now, I can give you the reference later.

 

[Biblican]

Trinitarians acknowledge no real human person in Christ.

Really? I didn't know that. Of course Jesus' has a begotten human soul just like ours. That's why His soul was made an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10). His soul would have to be begotten like ours in order to identify with us. His Spirit is God's Spirit, but His soul/person is like us.

 

[cjab]

Really? I didn't know that. Of course Jesus' has a begotten human soul just like ours. That's why His soul was made an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10). His soul would have to be begotten like ours in order to identify with us. His Spirit is God's Spirit, but His soul/person is like us.

I was referring to the hypostatic unionist variety of Trinitarian. They believe something different.

 

[cjab]

Really? I didn't know that. Of course Jesus' has a begotten human soul just like ours. That's why His soul was made an offering for sin (Isaiah 53:10). His soul would have to be begotten like ours in order to identify with us. His Spirit is God's Spirit, but His soul/person is like us.

I wouldn't say that they are equal in spirit but one in spirit. They are equal in form.

 

[Biblican]

Actually Jesus the man is a product of Trinitarian philosophy, because substantially Jesus is a divine person with full deific attributes.

If we understand how Jesus is constructed as a man we can understand how He is a man and "God" at the same time. Like all men He was born with a body, soul and spirit. His body was compliments of Mary. His soul was begotten/birthed from the Father's substance prior to His incarnation and then placed into Mary's body, but His soul is like a man's in order to identify with man and take our sins upon Him. His Spirit which gives life to the soul and body is God's Holy Spirit and that's where Jesus' divinity resides. So we can say that Jesus' soul unified with His body makes Him fully human, His Spirit unified with His soul makes Him fully God.

 

[Biblican]

I was referring to the hypostatic unionist variety of Trinitarian. They believe something different.

I think my version of it would be based on my research that the hypostatic union would simply be the union of God's Holy Spirit with Jesus' begotten soul. Agree?

 

[cjab]

I think my version of it would be based on my research that the hypostatic union would simply be the union of God's Holy Spirit with Jesus' begotten soul. Agree?

I would agree with you, excepting that his soul was fashioned after a human soul, after suffering a kenosis (emptying) of the divine soul.

 

[Biblican]

I wouldn't say that they are equal in spirit but one in spirit. They are equal in form.

I agree. To me equal in Spirit is the same as being one in Spirit, they are the same Spirit. I don't know what you mean by form. We've only got two elements in the scripture soul and spirit. They are one Spirit but two distinct souls, one eternal, the other begotten. So I see that they are not equal in the persons. The Father's person/soul would be the head of Jesus' begotten soul/person.

 

[cjab]

If we understand how Jesus is constructed as a man we can understand how He is a man and "God" at the same time. Like all men He was born with a body, soul and spirit. His body was compliments of Mary. His soul was begotten/birthed from the Father's substance prior to His incarnation and then placed into Mary's body, but His soul is like a man's in order to identify with man and take our sins upon Him. His Spirit which gives life to the soul and body is God's Holy Spirit and that's where Jesus' divinity resides. So we can say that Jesus' soul unified with His body makes Him fully human, His Spirit unified with His soul makes Him fully God.

I would say his divinity lies in that his soul retained some form of God, even as a human soul.

 

[Biblican]

I would agree with you, excepting that his soul was fashioned after a human soul, after suffering a kenosis (emptying) of the divine soul.

I don't see two souls in scripture. I believe that the soul that Jesus had was always like ours. Then Joined with God's Spirit as in Isaiah 42:1. He was always begotten for one purpose to be our Redeemer.

 

[cjab]

I don't see two souls in scripture. I believe that the soul that Jesus had was always like ours. Then Joined with God's Spirit as in Isaiah 42:1. He was always begotten for one purpose to be our Redeemer.

I didn't say that there were two souls. I said the human underwent an emptying per Phil 27.

 

[Biblican]

I didn't say that there were two souls. I said the human underwent an emptying per Phil 27.

I think that emptying relates to the glory that He shared with the Father, leaving that status to be contained within a limited human body.

 

[OldShepherd]

2 John 1:7 "For many deceivers have gone out into the world, refusing to confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist."
Trinitarians acknowledge no real human person in Christ.

Ah yes, the ubiquitous, anonymous "Trinitarians." Have you ever heard the expression "fully God and fully man?"

 

[cjab]

Ah yes, the ubiquitous, anonymous "Trinitarians." Have you ever heard the expression "fully God and fully man?"

Trinitarians say it, for effect, but as I said elsewhere, it's really just a philosophical conclusion. A philosophical human isn't a true human. That's the issue that Trinitarians have.

 

[cjab]

I think that emptying relates to the glory that He shared with the Father, leaving that status to be contained within a limited human body.

Obviously emptying included the forfeiting of glory, but emptying included equality with God also, which meant a substantial kenosis, in contradistinction to what the Trinitarians here maintain.